LOL I love comments like that (a laaarge one!).

Ill fire you a prvmsg probably some time this weekend thekiwi and see what we can figure out.

I love support threads like this which pull together so much good information!

Don't have the links for aol/msn that referenced this problem, but this is the one from yahoo http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/spam/spam-17.html. The other two had something similar about reverse dns.

One of my previous web hosts had a notice posted that because of this reverse dns problem, we should use their smtp server - mail.webhost.com rather than domain servers. Apparently they made some subsequent arrangement with the big three to bypass the check for mail coming from their range of ip's because we were later able to use our domain servers without a problem.

I currently run my own dns servers and alias all my smtp's to one common/master smtp server. No problems with either dedicated or shared ip's as long as I specify the domain smtp server instead of localhost.

There was some discussion in alt.www.webmaster a while ago about one of the msn mail servers being "bad" as mail sent to recipients on that particular server was subject to erratic bounces, but I forget the details.

If I were you andrew, I'd follow-up on thekiwi's offer. My gut (a laaarge one!), tells me there may be something interesting to learn here. A lot of the behaviors of the big 3's mail services seems inconsitent and I'd like to know the results of thekiwi's tests.

andrew_ wrote: thekiwi : did you quote the wrong person? If you meant to quote me... Thats really beside the point. Whether or not that should be the issue, it makes total sense. My IP Address does not resolve to the same domain as the sender because im being virutally hosted. Changing the code as I showed fixed the issue and allowed me to send through to hotmail and msn OK.

My guess is that you have inadvertantly corrected a problem somewhere else ... and more likely your default from address was/is incorrect.  THis can be a simple imput error, or a DNS misconfiguration in your domain details.  But if it works for you ... hey ... good stuff. 

To illustrate, my DEV environment is on an internal network (10.0.0.8) with a mails server (10.0.0.2) being used for relaying.  Its on a Dynamic IP Address and I can send to Hotmail, Yahoo etc etc accounts.  If you reverse lookup my SMTP relay IP Address you will get my ISP's FQDN.  If you reverse lookup on my FROM address and resolve its MX you will get my hosting server somewhere else in the world.  Remember, not all domains have/need an IP Address .. and a lot just have an MX record.

DP was right on... A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip. Thats dead on, and was my case to the T.

Good stuff ... but in computer fault finding your process does not imply cause and effect.

For example, I can send to my hotmail account using a faked Email address from my ISP's DSL connection ... the FROM address can be literally anything (in my tested cases) and all work fine.

It would be a great addition to the codebase if a reversedns lookup could be performed, or even directly inputted into the config and used in that fashion. It just works.

Good stuff ... but Im almost 99% sure you are bypassing an error in your forum config and/or your domains setup (eg at a DNS level).

Like I offered b4, if you send us the URL of your forum and/or the Email address you are using to send from ... we can test.

thekiwi : did you quote the wrong person?

If you meant to quote me... Thats really beside the point. Whether or not that should be the issue, it makes total sense. My IP Address does not resolve to the same domain as the sender because im being virutally hosted. Changing the code as I showed fixed the issue and allowed me to send through to hotmail and msn OK.

DP was right on... A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip. Thats dead on, and was my case to the T.

It would be a great addition to the codebase if a reversedns lookup could be performed, or even directly inputted into the config and used in that fashion. It just works.

andrew_ wrote: DP, Thank you for that list. #3 could very possibly be the cause. The IP of my server 69.56.242.54 on which my domain sits is also shared amongst several other domains, and in fact, upon a reverse DNS lookup, resolves to a completely different domain (and subdomain). Which is actually the domain of the owning hosting company. So I would guess this was causing the issue at hand. Is anyone aware of any server configuration which could resolve this, or any 'hack' solution for sending to hotmail.com addresses? (ie, something like using the actual reverse dns result for the @ portion of the sender's email address)

Sorry ... but that "shouldn't be the issue".

The SMTP negotiation process involving SPAM chekcing and DNSBL lookups will check for

* Does the IP Address of your SMTP relay exist in a BANNED list.  THis will be the IP Address of the server and is not an issue for you. A reverse lookup on your IP Address wil give the domain of the host ... and this is normal.  You dont need to worry about this.

* Does the domain of the sender (in the FROM field) resolve.  For example if Im sending from user@123.domainabc.com and the domain 123.domainabc.com doesn't exist then it will be denied access.  The from field is what you set in the WWF admin area.  This will occur regardless of what the IP Address of your relaying machine

DP, Thank you for that list.

#3 could very possibly be the cause. The IP of my server 69.56.242.54 on which my domain sits is also shared amongst several other domains, and in fact, upon a reverse DNS lookup, resolves to a completely different domain (and subdomain). Which is actually the domain of the owning hosting company.

So I would guess this was causing the issue at hand. Is anyone aware of any server configuration which could resolve this, or any 'hack' solution for sending to hotmail.com addresses? (ie, something like using the actual reverse dns result for the @ portion of the sender's email address)

EXCITED EDIT! We have a solution!

Line 117 of functions_send_mail.asp is where the edit takes place.

    If (InStr(strRecipientEmailAddress, "hotmail") Or InStr(strRecipientEmailAddress, "msn")) And strFromEmailAddress = "<email config address>" Then
     .From = strFromEmailName & " <noreply@69-56-242-54.theplanet.com>"
    Else
     .From = strFromEmailName & " <" & strFromEmailAddress & ">"
    End If

This very ugly and not very configurable change to the code let the email slip right on into hotmail.com and was tested on an msn.com account i created as well. Hey Borg-e-baby, might this be something worth working into the config in a future version?

Great discussion guys! Thanks!

dpyers wrote: Yahoo, MSN, and AOHell all publish webmaster info regarding what constitiutes spam to them. MSN also has one mail server that is totally hosed - e.g. handles mail in very non-standard ways. You'd have to check each site for details, and for other reasons they reject an email, but the quick list for spam flagging is: From a blacklisted ip. or an ip within a range of blacklisted ip's. Some number of sequential emails sent to their users with the same subject. A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip.

I dont think 1) is a problem since he can send an Email fro the server (or the admin ) and relay via the SMTP component.  We use various DNSBL lists on our own Email server and in most cases the sender gets a message back pointing out which specific spam block they are on.

2) Could be an issue, but since he is in development Id hazard he is only sending to himself.

3) Could almost certainly be it .... and a good test is to check the Email you receive yourself at another domain.  If you want, PM me and let me know where your site is.  I have 2 Mail Servers in use for myself and customers .... and will soon see if my servers turn your messge back as well ... for point 3.

Yahoo, MSN, and AOHell all publish webmaster info regarding what constitiutes spam to them. MSN also has one mail server that is totally hosed - e.g. handles mail in very non-standard ways. You'd have to check each site for details, and for other reasons they reject an email, but the quick list for spam flagging is:

1. From a blacklisted ip. or an ip within a range of blacklisted ip's.
2. Some number of sequential emails sent to their users with the same subject.
3. A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip.