QuoteReplyTopic: Additional non-Microsoft sections Posted: 10 October 2005 at 1:25am
I have a few suggestions for this website.
Because Microsofts webserver is one of the least used webservers on the internet, why limit the content of the website to ASP?
Adding tutorials and sample code where appropriate for the following software and technologies would make this website very useful for those who dont want to spend any money setting up a website.
Instructions on how to use PHP - an alternative to ASP - would be very good for those who arent runing a windows-based server at home or whose ISP uses PHP rather than ASP. - works on linux and windows - it is Opensource (free)
Apache is the most used web server software on the internet for a reason. It is stable, secure, powerful, and free. How about a tutorial on how to setup and configure Apache? - Apache can be run on both windows and linux. - It is Opensource (free)
My-SQL is a common free SQL server which can be easily used with PHP and Apache. - My-SQL is available for both windows and linux - It is Opensource (free)
phpBB is common free PHP-based forum software - works on any platform that PHP is available on - It is Opensource (free)
Linux is the fastest, most secure, stable, and powerful server platform available today. Using this free operating system an Administrator can setup a server or desktop system without spending any money
Mailman, free mailing list software from GNU for linux Webmin, web based server managment software for linux (free)
dyndns.org - A service that allows you to run a webserver from an internet connection that doesnt have a static IP address.
There is also much more software available which can allow for things such as POP/IMAP/SMTP servers, webmail, and others. Much of this software comes with linux distros.
Adding tutorials on how to use/setup some/all of this software would make this website very useful for anyone who wants to setup a website without having to pay for an ISP or expensive microsoft software. Because this website says "Web Wiz Guide - The Web Development Site", at the very least a PHP section should be added. Either that or change the title of the site to "The ASP web development site"
Because Microsofts webserver is one of the least used webservers on the internet, why limit the content of the website to ASP?
Rubbish, IIS is the 2nd most used web server on the net, thus Apache leads by quite a bit
Server
No. of Sites
Market Share
No. of Sites With .com domains
Apache
53,797,455
69.92%
26,689,970
Microsoft-IIS
15,604,771
20.28%
8,172,676
Randomize wrote:
Adding tutorials and sample code where appropriate for the following software and technologies would make this website very useful for those who dont want to spend any money setting up a website.
What does that have to do with money? And asp host these days is the same price/month as a php host. I am talking about reliable hosts not crappy free hosts that exist for both technologies
Randomize wrote:
Instructions on how to use PHP
Though a valid suggestion, in my opinion, there are already enough PHP sites out there, I think it is better to specialize on something like Borg does than to be a Jack of all.
Randomize wrote:
phpBB is common free PHP-based forum software - works on any platform that PHP is available on - It is Opensource (free)
Ehrm, did you look what this site is mainly about? A BB or Forum or whatever you want to call it. Why would one that develops an asp Forum talk about how to setup phpBB
Randomize wrote:
Linux is the fastest, most secure, stable, and powerful server platform available today.
Yeah right. Read the news. Also, in order to maintain Linux on a commercial level, it has a higher TCO than Windows.
Not saying that Apache, Linux is bad but that said, you decide for whatever best suits your interest or business. Every technology has it's place and I think, this site should be strictly asp maybe asp.net at some point.
Hmmmn, you shouldnt have said that Now i cant resist replying to your comments, ohwell, here goes....
True, IIS is the second most used web server software on the market ONLY because Apache has removed any need for Novell and other such companies to maintain their own web server software. Having a choice is good and as a result I have no issues with there being non-apache web server software out there.
As for money, Money is often a very big thing. Why spend thousands of dollars on Microsoft software when you can get free software that will do the job better? Normaly such money can be better spent elsewhere. Also, for people who want to learn web development often wouldnt want to have to pay for hosting if they can do it themselves just as well.
As for there being plenty of PHP sites out there, you are correct. There are also many ASP sites. Increasing the target audience would allow for increased revenue from advertising, etc. It would also mean that people wouldnt have to search all over the internet and become familiar with multiple websites. They could come here and learn what ever technology they want, stick arround on the forums and help other people out with problems, write sample applications, and in general increase the size of the community.
As for phpBB, it is simply an example of how some website facilities are already available. For someone producing a new website, it would be a waste of time writing their own forum software if one already exists that can do the job. There are, ofcourse, times when using existing software is not the best choice as it may not integrate well with the rest of the site.
And now for some generic Linux & Microsoft stuff...
Linux is the fastest, most secure and stable server platform available to date and I stand by that. I have (and do) read the news and so far I havent seen any valid studies that showed that windows security/stability/performance was greater than that of linux. The Linux and UNIX operating systems show their security and performance every day. Most of the internet is run of UNIX and Linux servers. These servers are exposed to the worst parts of the network and sit there happily, where as windows crashes and burns as soon as you connect it to the internet unless the lastest 200MB of security patches are installed.
Linux having a higher TCO that windows is a blatent lie coming directly from Microsoft Corporation. If a particular company realy wants to, they can pay for Linux and get commercial support along with that. OR, they can get the software for free and pay for the support, or they can get the software for free and get the support for free from the huge community.
The strange thing is, in Microsofts "Get the Facts" campeign, they failed to mention any facts. If you look closely at it, you can quite easily see their reasons behind their "facts" - they are scared of OpenSource software. They are loosing the server market to it and their desktop software is on the edge of a knife. Large OEMs are are putting linux on servers and beginning to offer linux on desktops. And since the world now knows that Microsofts OEM licenses are barely legal they cant stop OEMs from putting software like OpenOffice and FireFox on new PCs instead of Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer.
All up, Microsofts major products are under threat and there is nothing they can do about it. They are trying as hard as they can - spreading FUD and lies, trying to patent everything they can in an attept to kill innovation, and trying to finaly upgrade their software with features that competing products have had for years (such as finaly giving IE tabs because Firefox is stealing market share).
And now, back on topic...
Anyhow, so far this site is looking realy great, and with a bit more information it could be incredibly useful for web designers, developers, and administrators no matter what technology they want to use. There are very few websites that will provide tutorials that cover all aspects of designing, implementing, and runing a website. You could even go as far as producing your own easy to manage web server - After all, building a linux distro isnt very hard and there are plenty of good tutorials on how to do so. The hardest part would be producing an easy to use administration interface. Using somthing like a Wiki (MediaWiki is quite nice), you could allow the community to easily contribute tutorials, how-to's, technology descriptions, and other resources.
closing notes...
For more information on MediaWiki, see www.mediawiki.org. Examples of sites that use MediaWiki are the mediawiki homepage and wikipedia
And anyway, you have nothing to loose by adding extra content such as what I have suggested. By increasing the size of the site and community this could become an incredible resource.
And also, a note, you should always take anything from microsoft with a big cup of salt. They frequently lie and will do anything what so ever to increase their market share, no matter what it does to the IT industry. Whats realy bad is that they normaly get away with it.
And a final note, if you've not used Linux before, you can get Ubuntu Linux CDs shipped to you for free (no charges at all, as many as you want within reason) from www.ubuntu.org. There are also many other linux distros for every purpose that can be downloaded from many places on the net with no license fees or any required exchange of money.
First of all let me just say that I am not a MS zealot or a Linux zealot, I use the right tool for the job
Tux wrote:
As for phpBB, it is simply an example of how some website
facilities are already available. For someone producing a new website,
it would be a waste of time writing their own forum software if one
already exists that can do the job. There are, ofcourse, times when
using existing software is not the best choice as it may not integrate
well with the rest of the site.
Nobody was saying that you should write your php forums from the ground
up, we were just saying why would Bruce provide support for competing
forum software?
Tux wrote:
Linux is the fastest, most secure and stable server platform available to date and I stand by that.
That's completely your opinion and totally depends on other factors.
Tux wrote:
I have (and do) read the news and so far I havent seen any valid
studies that showed that windows security/stability/performance was
greater than that of linux
Have you seen any that state the opposite and are from a non-biased reputable source?
Tux wrote:
They are loosing the server market to it and their desktop software is
on the edge of a knife. Large OEMs are are putting linux on servers and
beginning to offer linux on desktops. And since the world now knows
that Microsofts OEM licenses are barely legal they cant stop OEMs from
putting software like OpenOffice and FireFox on new PCs instead of
Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer.
They're loosing the desktop computer market? Since when? Again, completly opinion based, let's get some non biased facts in here
Tux wrote:
All up, Microsofts major products are under threat and there is
nothing they can do about it. They are trying as hard as they can -
spreading FUD and lies, trying to patent everything they can in an
attept to kill innovation, and trying to finaly upgrade their software
with features that competing products have had for years (such as
finaly giving IE tabs because Firefox is stealing market share)
First of all, I wouldn't consider IE a major product, personally, but
that's just my opinion, like most of your post is just your opinion.
I'm not even going to bother clicking your links as they are probably
just complete fiction based on some linux guys fragmented imagination.
Without going into your message in details just because it too long and I am too lazy. I respect your "opinions" like Martin said and I never said Linux/Unix is bad. Hey even MS uses Unix for some of their Servers.
It is just a general fact that the discussion MS vs. *nix is the oldest in the IT arena. Both have pros and cons. I realize that MS is a money machine but so is IBM, HP, Sun etc who ship Unix.
Thus I stand by the fact that a Linux server has a higher TCO.
Windows OS ~$1000 + Windows Administrator(average $44,737) = 44k
Linux OS (free) + Linux/Unix Administrator (average $80,223) = well you know it.
That is a very basic TCO comparison but it gives you the idea why it's higher. I am talking corporate implementations because noone gives a rats ass about a 50kb "Why I love the color red" PHP or ASP website.
First of all let me just say that I am not a MS zealot or a Linux zealot, I use the right tool for the job
I am not neutral in the Windows vs Linux depate, but I am not a linux zealot. When someone asks me for advice on what software to use first I evaluate their needs and recommend what would suit their needs the best. If both products would meet their needs, the next thing I consider is cost and support. In most cases, support for Linux is as good as that of Windows, if not better (in many cases you can contact the developer directly)
Mart wrote:
Nobody was saying that you should write your php forums from the ground
up, we were just saying why would Bruce provide support for competing
forum software?
I wasnt aware that people still tried to make money off forum software. If Bruce isnt selling the forum software then other software isnt realy competing, they are just alternatives, some of which would suit some users better. This forum software isnt capable of competing with the likes of phpBB anyway. This is ASP, phpBB is PHP. Unless you are runing Microsoft windows on your server, this forum software isnt an option.
Mart wrote:
Have you seen any that state the opposite and are from a non-biased reputable source?
I saw some a while back which compared Windows, Netware, and Linux for performing various server tasks. Netware didnt crash at all, the linux machine went down once due to a hardware failure, and the windows machine had a few major failures and had to be installed once. Netware performed better than either Linux or Windows.
As for my opinion about performance and stability, I currently have 1 Netware server on my network and 2 Linux servers runing. I can treat the linux machines as badly as I want - the system files cant be damaged as the system partitions are mounted as read-only and documents are stored on a Reiser filesystem. I have run various windows servers on my network to evaluate their performance/stability/features and am currently a beta tester for Windows Server 2003 R2.
Mart wrote:
They're loosing the desktop computer market? Since when? Again, completly opinion based, let's get some non biased facts in here
I never said they were loosing the desktop computer market, I said that they are beginning to slip. Their market share hasnt realy decreased over the past few years, but the things that have kept them on top of the market (no application compatibility with other platforms, barely legal OEM licenses, no software available for other platforms) are either no longer a problem or are in the process of being resolved. Considering current market trends, public knowledge of Microsoft alternatives, and the increase of commercial software and drivers for linux, Microsoft is likely to begin loosing their strangle-hold on the desktop market sometime within the next 10 years.
Mart wrote:
First of all, I wouldn't consider IE a major product, personally, but
that's just my opinion, like most of your post is just your opinion.
I never said IE was a major product, it was just an example of Microsoft delaying much needed upgrades to their products until they have major competitors. Although, Microsoft does consider IE to be an important products - they spent alot of time and money destroying every other web browser available and cheating the company they licensed IE off.
Mart wrote:
I'm not even going to bother clicking your links as they are probably
just complete fiction based on some linux guys fragmented imagination.
You dont have to click the quotes, but your statements are incorrect. Had you read the line of text above the links you would have noticed that it is part of the local Linux Users Group. This website has not been written by a single linux guy - it has been written by the community. As for incorrect information, because it is a Wiki, anyone who wants to is able to edit the content. If you go there and see somthing that is incorrect you are encouraged to correct it.
And lastly, as for TCO, It realy depends on who is runing the IT department of the company. There is enough knowledge and documentation in the community that even your average computer user could make their own linux distro, wire up the coffie machine so it connects to a paralell port, and then write some simple client/server applications so that coffie can be made from anywhere from the network. Paying for support is completly optional and there is no reason why the company cant just keep their current administrators when migrating to linux or use an employee with computer knowledge to manage the servers.
Anyhow, my orrignal post was just a bunch of suggestions. The Administrators can take my advice or not. As i stated at the end of my second post, adding additional content to the site cant do any harm. Adding additional content to the site will increase the size of the community, increase the ammount and quality of site content, increase traffic and provide additional opportunities for advertising.
Increasing the size of your target audience can do many good things for a website of this nature and using somthing like a wiki would make managing and creating content easier.
Ok, first of all I have visited your links now, all I see is opinions, things microsoft did 25 years ago
and things that linux guys have wasted their time on in their own sad
sad way that is unique to linux guys, like this
Our father, who art in Redmond
Microsoft be thy name
Thy monopoly come, thy will be done
throughout the earth as it is in the US.
Give us this day, our daily license activation key
And forgive us our bug reports
as we forgive our system crashes
And lead us not into competition
But deliver us from innovation
For thine is the Control, and the Power and the Greed
Forever. Amen.
I wasnt aware that people still tried to make money off forum software.
If Bruce isnt selling the forum software then other software isnt realy
competing, they are just alternatives, some of which would suit some
users better. This forum software isnt capable of competing with the
likes of phpBB anyway. This is ASP, phpBB is PHP. Unless you are runing
Microsoft windows on your server, this forum software isnt an option.
Well, duh, he is selling link removal keys and developer licenses. And
if you think this is an inferior forum can I ask why you're here?
I never said they were loosing the desktop computer market, I said that
they are beginning to slip. Their market share hasnt realy decreased
over the past few years, but the things that have kept them on top of
the market (no application compatibility with other platforms, barely
legal OEM licenses, no software available for other platforms) are
either no longer a problem or are in the process of being resolved.
Considering current market trends, public knowledge of Microsoft
alternatives, and the increase of commercial software and drivers for
linux, Microsoft is likely to begin loosing their strangle-hold on the
desktop market sometime within the next 10 years.
Still, opinions opinions and opinions. Get some fact in your posts and someone might take notice.
This website has not
been written by a single linux guy - it has been written by the
community.
A single, biased community. And you should of course always beleive everything you read in wikis.
Anyhow, my orrignal post was just a bunch of suggestions. The
Administrators can take my advice or not. As i stated at the end of my
second post, adding additional content to the site cant do any harm.
Adding additional content to the site will increase the size of the
community, increase the ammount and quality of site content, increase
traffic and provide additional opportunities for advertising.
The majority of people on this site only care about ms technologies really, so there would be little point.
Ok, first of all I have visited your links now, all I see is opinions, things microsoft did 25 years ago
and things that linux guys have wasted their time on in their own sad
sad way that is unique to linux guys.
Microsoft is still doing things they were doing 25 years ago - stealing others ideas and code, producing inferior software, using barely legal business practices, and other such things. Alot things on that website are not opinion, they are fact and are well known within many circles of IT professionals. As for wasted time, many pages on that site have been produced to answer questions.
Our father, who art in Redmond
Microsoft be thy name
Thy monopoly come, thy will be done
throughout the earth as it is in the US.
Give us this day, our daily license activation key
And forgive us our bug reports
as we forgive our system crashes
And lead us not into competition
But deliver us from innovation
For thine is the Control, and the Power and the Greed
Forever. Amen.
That was not written by the people who maintain this site, it was written by someone on slashdot, a news site.
Well, duh, he is selling link removal keys and developer licenses. And
if you think this is an inferior forum can I ask why you're here?
I never said that this forum software was inferior, i said that it will only run on Microsoft servers. Someone runing a linux server can not run this forum software. This forum software cant compete with phpBB as it wont run on the same platforms as it and isnt a choice for Linux webservers.
Still, opinions opinions and opinions. Get some fact in your posts and someone might take notice.
My judgements are based on what I see in the market. They are opinions. It would not be possible to say "Fact: Linux will be the most popular operating system by 2015" as I can not see in to the future but I can make an educated guess.
A single, biased community. And you should of course always beleive everything you read in wikis.
Biased? yes. It is, afterall, a LINUX users group. However, I dont know one person on that site who will recommend linux to someone if it wont meet their needs. As for beleiving things in wikis, why shouldnt you? Why should it be any more invalid than anything else on the internet? As I said before, if you see somthing on there that is incorrect then fix it - there are edit links on every page.
The majority of people on this site only care about ms technologies really, so there would be little point.
Exactly. The reason why the majority of the people on this site only care about ms technologies is because thats all that there is on this site. If you added information non-ms technologies you would attract people who are also interested in non-ms technologies. This would increase the ammount of visitors and people who stay to provide help and support. Why is this a bad thing? With more hits on the site there is a higher chance that people would click on ads.
You are a Linux fan, that’s nice, but we are windows users and your not
going to change that with all your garage talking. Go back to your
Linux community post w---e.
Yes, I am a fan of linux, and it is nice. My main desktop machine also runs windows as it suits my purposes better than linux would (compatibility issues with games, etc). As for garage talking, I am unaware what you mean by this so I will ignore this. There is no reason for you to become irritated with me as you seem to be. If i have caused any offence
then I apologise. As for going back to the linux community, I am tempted to do this but now that I know that some people seem to have issues with non-microsoft software I wouldnt mind continuing this discussion to see what problems it is that people have with such software.
Here is a link to a document which discusses why one person dislikes Microsoft Corporation. It covers issues with the company and their software (past and present). I know that atleast one person will bring up the word "opinion" so I will say now; I have checked out alot of the problems mentioned about the software and company and I havent found any incorrect information, so there is factual information in there. It is quite a good read and also discusses quite alot of Microsofts history. http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html
Anyhow, as I have part 1 (2h10m) of my computer science scholarship exam tomorrow and part 2 (6h) the following day I wont be able to reply to any comments posted here until 6pm Saturday 15th October NZST. I look forward to any comments or questions - I dont mind a good argument as long as it is kept clean and doesnt get too heated.
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Randomize wrote:
Now i cant resist replying to your comments, ohwell, here goes....