New Logo
Printed From: Web Wiz Forums
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: General discussion and chat on any topic.
URL: https://forums.webwiz.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=19159
Printed Date: 28 March 2026 at 5:29pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: New Logo
Posted By: michael
Subject: New Logo
Date Posted: 05 April 2006 at 2:06pm
Just noticed the new WWF Logo and Copyright Disclaimer icon Borg put in on this site. Looking nice, does not match the rest of the site (yet) but I guess it's a work in progress.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 05 April 2006 at 5:22pm
Yeah i think it looks well slick
------------- Handyman man?
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 06 April 2006 at 9:40am
Thanks 
I've not started to design the rest of the site yet, but I doubt I will use these colours presently used in the forum.
However, I will be using the new logo throughout the new site and various new sections.
The new site will be some months away as I'm going for a complete re-write in ASP.NET with new sections and new format.
Any ideas as to the new site and format would be very welcome.
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 06 April 2006 at 10:57am
Yes, I like it better than the cobweb.
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Posted By: dpyers
Date Posted: 06 April 2006 at 3:05pm
Spiderwebs are so last millenium.
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Lead me not into temptation... I know the short cut, follow me.
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Posted By: the boss
Date Posted: 06 April 2006 at 9:14pm
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well the new logo looks like "impressed and derived from windows logo"
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Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 12:31am
I think it's a far more corperate looking logo, very smooth and bright, would encourage non techies to have a butchers
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 11:39am
the boss wrote:
well the new logo looks like "impressed and derived from windows logo" |
It wasn't derived from the Windows logo, it just uses the same colours as it uses primary colours as used by lots of companies, including Google, Microsoft, eBay, and 100's of others.
But I'm glad that you all like it, much better than the cob web that was designed over 6 years ago now. I can't believe I used it for so long.
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Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 4:18pm
-boRg- wrote:
Thanks 
...
The new site will be some months away as I'm going for a complete re-write in ASP.NET with new sections and new format.
Any ideas as to the new site and format would be very welcome.
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YES~!
GIVE ME AN ASP.NET VERSION OF WWF~!
I WILL KILL, SLAUGHTER, MAIM, DESTROY, KILL, RAPE, PILLAGE AND PLUDER
MY WAY TO YOUR DOOR TO GIVE YOU MONEY FOR AN ASP.NET DNN VERSION OF
WWF~!
Ok... Now I'll take a breather... That whole ASP.NET thing got me a bit excited!
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Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 4:21pm
Did I mention that I would kill for an ASP.NET DotNetNuke version of WWF?
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Posted By: michael
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 6:53pm
Hehe, I think Bruce is talking about designing his site first in asp.ent, not the forum right? Sure I would love to see a .net version of the forum as well but I think its cool that the site is moving .net too.
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Posted By: Freon22
Date Posted: 07 April 2006 at 8:46pm
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Yes that would be great, WWF in vb.net 2.0 with sql 2005 database. You could even make the database in sql 2005 express that way the user can upload the .mdf and .ldf files to their IP 2005 server.
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Posted By: Tegwin
Date Posted: 10 April 2006 at 6:01pm
I think Borg has a lot on his plate right now, but I agree with most of the people here.. ASP.NET Version of the FORUM would be fantastic... especially if it could work with the likes of DNN.
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 10 April 2006 at 8:15pm
Tegwin wrote:
I think Borg has a lot on his plate right now, but I agree with most of the people here.. ASP.NET Version of the FORUM would be fantastic... especially if it could work with the likes of DNN. |
I personally would have no interest in an ASP.NET version of the forum and would never upgrade to one. I would have to redesign thousands of pages on my website, which are integrated with the current ASP version of WWF. No thank you. We tried getting ASP and ASP.NET to play nicely on the same page in the past, and they don't.
So we will always use the latest ASP version of WWF, but would never switch to ASP.NET.
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Posted By: dpyers
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 1:00am
Much as I'd like an asp.net version, I think Borg would need to hire a call center. ASP is pretty simple. ASP.NET is not. Would be a real challenge to make it idiot proof. Then they would just make better idiots.
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Lead me not into temptation... I know the short cut, follow me.
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 12:57pm
The problem is that classic ASP is no-longer being developed.
Although at the moment it looks like the downloads for ASP forums still out weighs the downloads for ASP.NET forums more and more people are moving across everyday.
I've been looking at ASP.NET version 2 and it looks like there are quite a few improvements. Also allot of things like simpler to do in ASP.NET as they are built into the framework, rather than having to spend hours, if not months sometimes developing work arounds in ASP.
One things that puzzles me is why everyone who develops ASP.NET software always releases it as a .DLL file, even the free stuff.
This makes modifying the code and learning from other developers code impossible, which is something I would rather stay away from.
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Posted By: michael
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:43pm
Well I think some developers just want to protect their code. It might be a good idea to only realease a dll as long as it is in beta and e.g. only allow to run on localhost so all this impatient ones cannot run it on a production server.
If you look at some of the other large .net Projects like CommunityServer.org, they release full source code as well, thus sometimes it is still hard to learn from as those projects tend to get overly complex and hard to follow.
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:59pm
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Thanks michael, I'll have to have a look at that
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 4:19pm
-boRg- wrote:
The problem is that classic ASP is no-longer being developed. |
True. At some point I may consider ASP.NET for a new website, but I am not going to convert an existing thousand plus page website to ASP.NET just because its the latest greatest thing. If my website works fine in ASP and does what I need, there is no reason to switch to ASP.NET.
So, as a paying customer, basically I will always upgrade to the latest ASP version of WWF. But if development of the ASP version stops, then I'll just have to take over the maintenance of WWF on my website rather than convert to ASP.NET.
My website wouldn't benefit from any of the new features of ASP.NET anyway. So why go through all the trouble of rewriting everything?
-boRg- wrote:
Although at the moment it looks like the downloads for ASP forums still out weighs the downloads for ASP.NET forums more and more people are moving across everyday. |
Partially that is because of the large ASP userbase. ASP Classic is not going away anytime soon. Hell, people are still using Perl when there are more modern languages like ASP/VBScript, ASP/JScript, PHP and ASP.NET.
Even if Microsoft stops supporting it, there is always Chilisoft which allows you to run ASP in Linux. It may become less popular over time, like Perl, but it will never go away.
-boRg- wrote:
I've been looking at ASP.NET version 2 and it looks like there are quite a few improvements. Also allot of things like simpler to do in ASP.NET as they are built into the framework, rather than having to spend hours, if not months sometimes developing work arounds in ASP. |
ASP.NET does seem to be the next generation of web design, so I am sure many new projects will get developed in it due to that simplicity. I am even considering trying it out myself. But, again, for new stuff only. Converting old stuff that works is a waste of time.
-boRg- wrote:
One things that puzzles me is why everyone who develops ASP.NET software always releases it as a .DLL file, even the free stuff.
This makes modifying the code and learning from other developers code impossible, which is something I would rather stay away from. |
Agreed. They probably do it so you have to pay them at some point to update they code.
I won't use any code on my website that I do not have the source code to. Period.
I made that mistake once, and wound up rewriting all their poorly written ASP.NET DLLs into ASP Classic so I could fix them and enhance them. I asked for ASP Classic, they gave me ASP.NET DLLs. I was not happy.
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 5:22pm
I wouldn't recommend re-writing web sites just to have ASP.NET either, and I certainly won't be for most of my ASP web sites which are running fine as they are.
But as I want to re-design Web Wiz Guide anyway, it's going to need quite a big re-write, so I may as well re-write the whole thing using XHTML, CSS, and ASP.NET, so that it's ready for the next 5 years.
Also, I have been waiting to learn ASP.NET for a long time and ASP.NET 2 on paper looks really good, so I think it will be a good way to learn.
I've read loads of books on ASP.NET, but I always find the best way to learn anything is to just get on and do it.
I shall also be staying away from .DLL's as I have always been very proud of my code and don't want to hide it away, also it won't be as handy to update stuck in a .DLL.
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Posted By: Susan0722
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 6:00pm
Blue Frog scares me.
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Posted By: michael
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:04pm
-boRg- wrote:
I shall also be staying away from .DLL's as I have always been very proud of my code and don't want to hide it away, also it won't be as handy to update stuck in a .DLL.
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Well the DLL gets only created once you compile. You can still deliver a Project File with it's aspx file that have a .vb or .cs codebehind file... Once the user compiles the page it creates the dll for all code-behind stuff in the bin folder. If you really want to develop good asp.net sites you can't really stay away from dll's. I reckon you want to implement providers, class-libraries etc which will always be a dll.
How you deliver them is another story. I think in-line code "between server tags that is" makes a page harder to read. I like to have my code as Object Oriented as possible with as much code tugged away in classes etc.
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:53pm
michael wrote:
-boRg- wrote:
I shall also be staying away from .DLL's as I have always been very proud of my code and don't want to hide it away, also it won't be as handy to update stuck in a .DLL.
|
If you really want to develop good asp.net sites you can't really stay away from dll's. I reckon you want to implement providers, class-libraries etc which will always be a dll. |
Another reason why I will probably switch to PHP rather than ASP.NET. I want a script, not an application. ASP.NET is more like building a Windows Application than a Web Page. Yes, that has its benefits, like Windows applications being compiled has its benefits (mostly for the developer, the end-user loses control completely).
ASP.NET is good for professional developers who want to charge big money for web applications while retaining control over their code (similar to how Microsoft controls what Microsoft Word will and will not do, the end-user cannot customize anything Microsoft doesn't want them to).
ASP and PHP are good for webmasters who want to retain control of what is on their website and be able to customize it. I think most webmasters will switch to PHP if ASP goes away. That is the only way they can stay in control of what's on their own websites without having to pay someone to change it.
Only web developers will switch to ASP.NET, as it only benefits them and not the end-user. Companies and individuals who have no interest in modfying the webpages will pay some web developer to make their web pages in ASP.NET, but the average webmaster who is not a programmer probably will use PHP instead.
Microsoft is actually sending a whole segment of the market to PHP by eliminating ASP. ASP.NET is not a replacement for ASP because it is not a script, its a compiled application. Totally different things.
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Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:56pm
wistex wrote:
ASP.NET is not a replacement for ASP because it is not a script, its a compiled application. |
I was under the impression (proberly wrongly knowing me ) that asp.net code didn't neccesarily have to be compiled. Can anyone shed any light on this?
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 9:06pm
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I've been told that it doesn't have to be compiled. In practice, it seems that everyone compiles it. After all, that is supposedly one of ASP.NET's more important selling points, its compiled so its faster.
Some places will provide the source code, but the distributed app seems to always have compiled parts to it.
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Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 9:16pm
Booo that. Everything i have learnt has been from staring a reams of ASP code and playing around with it. Compiled code would kill my fun 
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 9:58pm
If they give you the source code, you could change it and recompile it.
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Posted By: Susan0722
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 4:02am
Borg, No offense but I am not sure I like that new logo. It reminds me too much of the new windows one.
It's VERY similar. 
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Posted By: michael
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:31pm
asp.net is ALWAYS compiled. You can choose to put your code in code-behind files or in the page itself. If you put it in code-behind you need to compile before running the page, if it's in the page JIT (Just in Time Compiler) does the job when you run it for the first time.
I totally disagree that webmasters will go to PHP just because asp.net has a compiled model. Maybe you want to check on PHP, it's not staying the way it is either.
There will always be a load of freeware even for asp.net where you can see and modify the code. Just take a look at gotdotnet.com where there are thousands of projects you can download and mostly alter the code. It is just a more advanced way of doing it compared to asp or php or any script language as script languages lack features that are needed for sites these days. Now whether you think those features are important enough for you is, well up to you.
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Posted By: Susan0722
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 4:12pm
Ok you guys are sooooooo off topic!
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Posted By: dpyers
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 9:53pm
I think we went astray when bluefrog started scaring people.
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Posted By: Susan0722
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 9:57pm
I think you're right!
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Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 10:50pm
dpyers wrote:
I think we went astray when bluefrog started scaring people.
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Peace, love, and eternal grooviness~! 
Make love, not war~! 
1, 2, 3, 4... I don't want your ing war~!
http://www.septemberquestion.org/lumpley/puppies.html - I love puppies~! 
Ok... I'll play nice 
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Posted By: Scotty32
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 10:57pm
"make love, not war" ... unless its for WebWizForum eh?
BlueFrog wrote:
I WILL KILL, SLAUGHTER, MAIM, DESTROY, KILL, RAPE, PILLAGE AND PLUDER
MY WAY TO YOUR DOOR TO GIVE YOU MONEY FOR AN ASP.NET DNN VERSION OF
WWF~! |
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Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 11:01pm
Ha ha ha got ya there ....
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Posted By: dpyers
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 11:41pm
Actually the thought of bluefrog as a hippie is a lot scarier than shouting or killing puppies for satan.
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Lead me not into temptation... I know the short cut, follow me.
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Posted By: Susan0722
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 3:42am
My eyes! There it is again! 
Please DO NOT quote him again.
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 3:48am
In bloody red lettering even! 
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 4:33am
michael wrote:
asp.net is ALWAYS compiled. You can choose to put your code in code-behind files or in the page itself. If you put it in code-behind you need to compile before running the page, if it's in the page JIT (Just in Time Compiler) does the job when you run it for the first time.
I totally disagree that webmasters will go to PHP just because asp.net has a compiled model. Maybe you want to check on PHP, it's not staying the way it is either.
There will always be a load of freeware even for asp.net where you can see and modify the code. Just take a look at gotdotnet.com where there are thousands of projects you can download and mostly alter the code. It is just a more advanced way of doing it compared to asp or php or any script language as script languages lack features that are needed for sites these days. Now whether you think those features are important enough for you is, well up to you. |
I think webmasters who are not programmers will go to PHP, webmasters who are programmers will go to ASP.NET... or PHP.
PHP is growing, changing. ASP.NET is growing, changing. ASP is no longer being developed. People who like how ASP works will go to PHP because PHP works very similarly to ASP. ASP.NET, however, is a programming language, not a script. A bit intimidating for someone who just wants to modify their script so that the logo is in a different place, or who wants to integrate two scripts they purchased together. It isn't as simple as "change one line, upload and refresh your browser." You have to buy software to write ASP.NET or find free software, change one line, recompile and hope it compiles, reupload the whole thing again, and then you get to refresh your browser. A lot more steps to make one little change. At least with ASP or PHP you can open notepad and change one line and your done.
For someone who purchases scripts instead of writes them, ASP.NET is much more of a hassle to change... and that's if they give you the source code, which most won't. Unless you are developing your own stuff or intend on being a programmer, then its best to stay away from ASP.NET and use PHP or ASP. ASP.NET is for programmers and people developing software to sell, not your typical webmaster who downloads whatever scripts he can since he doesn't know how to write his own yet.
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Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 4:56am
wistex wrote:
michael wrote:
asp.net is ALWAYS compiled. You can choose to put your code in code-behind files or in the page itself. If you put it in code-behind you need to compile before running the page, if it's in the page JIT (Just in Time Compiler) does the job when you run it for the first time.
I totally disagree that webmasters will go to PHP just because asp.net has a compiled model. Maybe you want to check on PHP, it's not staying the way it is either.
There will always be a load of freeware even for asp.net where you can see and modify the code. Just take a look at gotdotnet.com where there are thousands of projects you can download and mostly alter the code. It is just a more advanced way of doing it compared to asp or php or any script language as script languages lack features that are needed for sites these days. Now whether you think those features are important enough for you is, well up to you. |
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wistex wrote:
I think webmasters who are not programmers will go to PHP, webmasters who are programmers will go to ASP.NET... or PHP. |
I'm not so sure of that. For simple stuff, it doesn't matter whether you use ASP or PHP. For complex things, PHP is underpowered. ASP.NET gives you literally unlimited power.
wistex wrote:
PHP is growing, changing. ASP.NET is growing, changing. ASP is no longer being developed. People who like how ASP works will go to PHP because PHP works very similarly to ASP. |
Depends... I think that will really be up to whether third parties continue to develop things for ASP. If so, then there's no reason to switch. You're probably right though.
wistex wrote:
ASP.NET, however, is a programming language, not a script. A bit intimidating for someone who just wants to modify their script so that the logo is in a different place, or who wants to integrate two scripts they purchased together. It isn't as simple as "change one line, upload and refresh your browser." You have to buy software to write ASP.NET or find free software, change one line, recompile and hope it compiles, reupload the whole thing again, and then you get to refresh your browser. A lot more steps to make one little change. At least with ASP or PHP you can open notepad and change one line and your done. |
I'm sure there will be free tools. WebMatrix was one. I can't see MS letting it die for small developers and web masters. They still want to sell servers...
wistex wrote:
For someone who purchases scripts instead of writes them, ASP.NET is much more of a hassle to change... and that's if they give you the source code, which most won't. |
Again, it depends on your environment. For DNN (an ASP.NET portal application), installing modules (similar to a script) requires almost zero brain activity. It's just that easy.
wistex wrote:
Unless you are developing your own stuff or intend on being a programmer, then its best to stay away from ASP.NET and use PHP or ASP. ASP.NET is for programmers and people developing software to sell, not your typical webmaster who downloads whatever scripts he can since he doesn't know how to write his own yet.
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There is a much larger learning curve for ASP.NET... and it is daunting. I don't really do a lot of server programming anymore, though the next release of Guitar & Drum Trainer does have some internet connectivity in it. But it's just so much easier to do all that stuff in .NET than it is in ASP or PHP. If you're going to choose between the 3, and you want to do funky wild stuff, or you just want to do stuff fast, .NET is the way to go.
What I see happening is that the web is maturing and filtering power back up to the rich/affluent. To have a *good* site takes money or lots of time and skills. Joe Blow can't make a good site without knowing a lot, or having a lot of money, or having KILLER CONTENT. Ugly sites don't do well without majorly cool content. It looks like that may push more towards PHP as it requires less investment in time to learn and it's still actively developed. But I don't think that the 'compiled' thing will be the major deciding factor. I'm betting on it being purely the initial investment of time (i.e. money) that will be the deciding factor for most people.
And I managed to get through that post without being scary ~!
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:40am
Bluefrog wrote:
Again, it depends on your environment. For DNN (an ASP.NET portal application), installing modules (similar to a script) requires almost zero brain activity. It's just that easy. |
But that's not ASP.NET making it easy, thats DNN. Mambo/Joomla written in PHP has the simplest way to install modules that I've seen. You don't even have to unzip them! You just upload the zipped module which contains all the files, Joomla/Mambo unzips it, reads the XML instructions for installing the module, and installs it. Now that's simple. But again, has nothing to do with PHP or ASP.NET as far as the person who is adding the module is concerned.
...
Oh, and about the logo. The more I look at it, the more I think its too... square.
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:53am
Looking at ASP.NET 2 Microsoft is making ASP.NET even simpler to use.
Their free web matrix package makes building ASP.NET sites easy now.
Also, ASP.NET 2 integrates really easy with SQL Server Express 2005 (which is also free). You can now create an SQL Express .mdf file just like an Access .mdb file and then simply upload it to a folder on your site and use ASP.NET to attach it to your application.
This allows you to use ASP.NET with the power of SQL Server for free in a manner as simple as using ASP and Access.
VS 2005 will even create the SQL Server .mdf file for you place it in a folder and attach it to your ASP.NET web page!! (not sure if this is possible in the free web matrix software)
This I think what MS have done is in direct competition to PHP and mySQL, but even easier to do and more powerful.
I think that now ASP.NET 2 is out with SQL 2005 Express and the free tools, with it being simpler to use, more people will start taking the plunge and going for ASP.NET 2 over PHP.
I know it's now looking more attractive to me than ASP.NET 1 did and I imagine more people will do also.
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Posted By: dpyers
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 2:06pm
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ASP.NET 2.0 is easier to program with than 1.x. You can do
things in one line that would have taken half a dozen lines in 1.x
That's both a blessing and a curse though. Any time a bunch of functionality
gets encapsulated into one function, it becomes harder to modify one piece of
it as it's masked by the uber-function.
The biggest limitation on .net 2.0 deployment in shared hosting environments is
currently psoft's Hsphere control panel which can support either 2.0 or 1.x for
an account, but not both for the same account.
There are ways for the server admin to manually configure a domain to use a
version other than the hsphere default for the server but if you loose the
server, all that manual configuration has to be redone. Not a problem if you
only have a couple of sites that are not the servers .net standard, but a
different matter if there are hundreds on the server.
The corporate world tends to avoid scripting languages for public web sites.
The main problem there is the run-time execution of script code which is
hundreds of times slower than compiled machine code (or in the case of .net,
Common Language Runtime.
I think it's useful to remember that .net is a framework, not a language. As a
framework it is extensible beyond it's initial capabilities. ASP has a
half-dozen or so objects, .net has well over 2000 built in - not counting
extensions to the framework. That's an uncomfortable position to be in for
people who are used to knowing a language inside-out.
The closest paradigm we have for .net development is the java framework where
functionality is also organized by libraries. There's a core set of libraries
that everyone should be familiar with and then there's additional libraries
that you only get involved with for specific types of system services - e.g.
JMS = Java Message Services library, JDBC = Java Data Base Connectivity, etc.
It's not uncommon to see a bunch of acronyms behind an add for a java developer
- those acronyms specify the libraries you need to be familiar with.
Where Microsoft has fallen on it's ass is in mapping the .net libraries to
types of systems. In an object-oriented world, there are 22 system "design
patterns". All systems/subsystems will fall into one of those patterns.
The java community has done a good job of mapping those design patterns to
libraries and applications. So If I want to build a web-based application that
does X, I can find out that YY design pattern is probably the most useful and
it will involve ZZZ libraries.
Microsoft depended upon the community to explore the language and develop the
library mappings to design patterns and applications but it hasn’t happened
beyond a limited scale for a variety of reasons. Microsoft has started to step
up to the mapping plate but in a back-assward manner.
So the bottom line is that you don't need to know everything about .net beyond
understanding a few framework concepts and what a couple of libraries can do
for you. That'll give you the ability to explore or use other libraries on an
as-needed basis. The capabilities of the .net framework are going to grow and
the body-of-thought for how to use it is also advancing. The longer you put it
off, the further behind you'll be when you do make the jump.
PHP is a respectable language with some limitations, after JAVA/JSP, it's
probably the best language for UNIX apps. Java however is a poor choice for
shared web hosting due to limitations of the virtual machines needed to run it
in. Object PHP however is still something of a joke. I don't see the larger
conceptual image of how it all fits together that .net and java have used as
their guide - but admittedly, I haven't looked that closely at it.
-------------
Lead me not into temptation... I know the short cut, follow me.
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Posted By: michael
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 2:54pm
wistex wrote:
A bit intimidating for someone who just wants to modify their script so that the logo is in a different place, or who wants to integrate two scripts they purchased together. It isn't as simple as "change one line, upload and refresh your browser." You have to buy software to write ASP.NET or find free software, change one line, recompile and hope it compiles, reupload the whole thing again, and then you get to refresh your browser. |
Well, it really depends what you want to change. I think they made it even easier in asp.net especially 2.0 to change design. You have essnetially 1 or 2 master pages, change those and the design is changed on all 5000 sites you might have. These Master pages can include everything common like menus, login controls etc so only the content itself is different. For changing a logo around or editing a css class, you don't need to re-compile. You can still open the aspx page like you are opening the asp page to edit design. The compiled "stuff" is usually just business logic, data access etc. They have barely ever anything to do with design so Notepad is still my friend for quick changes.
Now I can agree that languages like PHP make some things simpler. Following the flow of a script language is much simpler. It is faster to learn how it works and if there is an error it is usually at the line indicated and not some remote object. So I think it always depends on what you need to do and what the visibility/focus of your site is.
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 8:19pm
Good points. I may eventually try ASP.NET now that I have enough knowledge of programming. But the novice will probably stick with simpler things until they get up to par, like I did. Started with HTML, then MivaScript, then ASP, then PHP, and now might even try some ASP.NET for new websites (not existing ones).
I can see people going from HTML to ASP/PHP to ASP.NET, but I don't see the casual webmaster jumping directly to ASP.NET unless they are interested in becoming a programmer.
------------- http://www.wistex.com" rel="nofollow - WisTex Solutions http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/forums" rel="nofollow - CaribbeanChoice Forums
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Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 14 April 2006 at 3:36pm
I'm liking the 'reflection' underneath the new logo as of today, very stylish -boRg-
------------- Handyman man?
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Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 14 April 2006 at 4:48pm
What I see MS doing is creating a very wild language that offers insane
amounts of power (PHP cannot compete with .NET there) and then offering
the TOOLS to do something with it. They aren't there quite yet, but I'm
sure that .NET 3 will absolutely kill anything else out there. But,
that's contingent on the TOOLS that are available.
People don't want to create code... They want to DO things. And ASP.NET
is making (will make) real power accessible to normal people the
way that CoffeeCup HTML editor made making web pages accessible to your
mom.
MS is about "getting things DONE".
UNIX is about "it had better f**king work no matter how much it costs..."
Linux is about "I'm a cheap bastard and won't pay for software."
Mac is about "I just want to send email and surf."
Personally, I just want to get stuff done. The MS model works for me.
I do not need to run systems with 99.9999999999999% uptime distributed
over 10,000 servers. If I needed that, I'd look at UNIX (Sun, HP,
IBM), not Linux or Windows.
The problem is a question of scale. UNIX for a simple pure static HTML web site is like using nukes on mosquitoes.
For seriously intense applications, Cray is one to look at. But we're not concerned with that kind of stuff here.
And the reflection looks nice too in the logo. 
------------- http://renegademinds.com/" rel="nofollow - Renegade Minds - Guitar Software http://renegademinds.com/Default.aspx?tabid=65" rel="nofollow - Slow Down Music
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 14 April 2006 at 6:23pm
Mikey wrote:
I'm liking the 'reflection' underneath the new logo as of today, very stylish -boRg-
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Yes, the reflection adds something. I like it. I looks less... er, squarish with the reflection. Me likes. 
------------- http://www.wistex.com" rel="nofollow - WisTex Solutions http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/forums" rel="nofollow - CaribbeanChoice Forums
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Posted By: dpyers
Date Posted: 14 April 2006 at 8:06pm
Talking about MS tools, has anyone trialed the MS Expression products?
-------------
Lead me not into temptation... I know the short cut, follow me.
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Posted By: michael
Date Posted: 17 April 2006 at 4:39pm
Yeah, I tried both of the Expression Products available. I like the XAML on the fly editor, though I don't have enough understanding of XAML yet to create compelling UI's. Though I tried some examples of the web and I say wow, bye bye AJAX lol. The Graphics program Expression Designer or whatever it's called does not have all the features I need for Photo Editing at least. Maybe its not what it is supposed to do but I stick with PS for now.
------------- http://baumannphoto.com" rel="nofollow - Blog | http://mpgtracker.com" rel="nofollow - MPG Tracker
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Posted By: iSec
Date Posted: 19 April 2006 at 5:29pm
Would be good if Borg could Trademark his new logo... it looks cool!
------------- "When it gets dark enough, you can see the stars"
-Charles A. Beard
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Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 20 April 2006 at 3:58am
I'm not sure of the laws of the UK, but in some countries you get a commonlaw trademark just by using the mark. And no matter what, it's copyrighted. Although registering it as a trademark would provide some protection.
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Posted By: ctscott
Date Posted: 20 April 2006 at 2:10pm
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i've been playing around with ASP.Net 2.0 and find it frustrating at times to get it to work...mostly with databases. that datagrid control is beating me like a drum with a "Could not load type System.Web.UI.WebControls.AccessDataSource from assembly System.Web" error. I can, using the free Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition editor, get other's code to work tho. and on topic.....
i always liked the Wizard guy with the wand for a logo.
------------- ______________________
http://www.cfbtrivia.com" rel="nofollow - College Football Trivia
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Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 21 April 2006 at 9:14pm
I see the changes happening here . Starting to look more natural and easier on the eye.
------------- Handyman man?
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