Flash: Why?
Printed From: Web Wiz Forums
Category: Web Wiz Web App Support Forums
Forum Name: Web Wiz Forums
Forum Description: Support forum for Web Wiz Forums application.
URL: https://forums.webwiz.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=19220
Printed Date: 12 April 2026 at 7:57am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Flash: Why?
Posted By: djlurchg
Subject: Flash: Why?
Date Posted: 10 April 2006 at 5:09am
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Why are you using a Flash image for the "Processing Request" popup. For that matter, why use the pop window. Of course it's "processing request", duh. Is there a programmatic reason? There seems to be no useful UI reason unless pages are taking 30 seconds to create. I use FF and Flashblock, so I don't even know that the flash image says. IMHO this "feature" should be dumped. |
Replies:
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 10 April 2006 at 11:19am
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This feature is used on parts, such as the search, that can take sometime to complete. It informs the user that their request has been posted and is being handled. The reason for using Flash is that I wanted to use a Gif, but in IE once a page is submitted Gif animations stop running, the only way to get the animation to work for IE is to use a Flash animation as IE doesn't stop the Flash animation from running once the page is submitted. The reason for using a pop-up, is that it is not a pop-up, it is a hidden layer that appears once the submit button is clicked, this was the only practical way of implementing this feature. |
Posted By: djlurchg
Date Posted: 10 April 2006 at 5:16pm
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Alright then. I looked into the code and here's a snippet (that you need to comment out) for anyone wanting to disable the popup window. //Show progress bar var progressWin = document.getElementById('progressBar'); var progressArea = document.getElementById('progressFormArea'); progressWin.style.left = progressArea.offsetLeft + (progressArea.offsetWidth-210)/2 + 'px'; progressWin.style.top = progressArea.offsetTop + (progressArea.offsetHeight-140)/2 + 'px'; progressWin.style.display='inline' |
Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 10 April 2006 at 8:36pm
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Why would you want to dump this feature??? It's common courtesy to let your visitors know that something is happening  ------------- Handyman man? |
Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 1:10am
I like it. Lets users know the page isn't stuck. 
------------- http://www.wistex.com" rel="nofollow - WisTex Solutions http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/forums" rel="nofollow - CaribbeanChoice Forums |
Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 12:18pm
Precisley  Stops them hitting 'submit' mutiple times too. ------------- Handyman man? |
Posted By: Roman
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 12:44pm
| I like it - rarely is user feedback problematic IMO. |
Posted By: djlurchg
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 4:11pm
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Why? For starters, because the 97% Flash penetration figure put out by Macromedia is an outright lie. Second, Popups are evil. Third, if the search takes THAT long to complete, a new algorithm is needed. Fourth, the VBB implementation of an intermediate page is the standard for forum software. Guys/gals: it's great that you like it. The cool thing about having access to the source code and being an ASP coder is that it can be disabled :) |
Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 4:47pm
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True. Its good that people can modify the code to how they like it. :)
And pop-ups are not evil if they are used for the purpose Borg used them for, to enhance the user's experience (i.e. to give them valuable information).
They are evil when they open a new browser window and advertise something that is totally unrelated to the website you are visiting. ------------- http://www.wistex.com" rel="nofollow - WisTex Solutions http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/forums" rel="nofollow - CaribbeanChoice Forums |
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 4:55pm
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It's not actually a pop-up. It's just a hidden layer within the page, that when submit is clicked is set to visible so that you can see it. |
Posted By: djlurchg
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 5:28pm
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borg: Yes, from an HTML/Browser perspective it is NOT a popup. I got that part. To the user it IS a popup. I detest flash being used in 90% of the implementations I have seen, but that's just me. Others clearly have no problem with it. I wouldn't expect you to recode based on a minority opinion (mine). Scott: "Enhancing the user experience"? That is like GW's Leak-Gate scandal. It's a matter of perspective! :) |
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 5:55pm
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I'm not a big fan on Flash either, but in this case because Gif animation stops working when a page is submitted in IE I had no choice, as it looked really naff a progress bar appearing with a stationary bar in IE. I was forced to re-write it in Flash after I found out that Flash is the only animation that keeps going in IE after the page is submitted. Hopefully if MS address this issue in IE7 and will be able to use a Gif image in future versions. |
Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 6:06pm
I'm a user and I don't consider it a pop-up. And its better than some forums where they take you to a temporary page that says loading before it sends you to the results. I hate that.
And don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Just because in a big tub, 90% of the volume is dirty (i.e. the bathwater), doesn't mean the baby needs to go too!
Maybe if more people were like Borg and used it for its intended purposed (i.e. being useful to the user), there would be more than 10% of people using it for good and you would like it more.
Borg is actually doing a public service by using Flash in a good way, showing that the technology CAN be used for good and not evil.
 (patriotic music starts playing in the background.)
Someday good will triumph over evil and its people like Borg who will make it possible.
(camera pans to Borg standing proudly, with a cape flapping in the wind, in a superman type pose.)
LOL   ------------- http://www.wistex.com" rel="nofollow - WisTex Solutions http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/forums" rel="nofollow - CaribbeanChoice Forums |
djlurchg wrote:Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:52pm
 Lol Wistex your one of the WWF members that make me feel sane 
------------- Handyman man? |
Posted By: miladanimator
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 5:45am
| -borg- can you upload the *.fla file of Progress bar ? I want change the colour of bar like my skin ... |
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 12 April 2006 at 11:16am
| It should be in the original images zip file found on the main forum download page. |
Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 3:22am
I do my best. ------------- http://www.wistex.com" rel="nofollow - WisTex Solutions http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/forums" rel="nofollow - CaribbeanChoice Forums |
Posted By: djlurchg
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 8:31am
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All this talk about how the intermediary flash popup being a good thing...I noticed that when you log on it takes you to an intermediary HTML page that employs a meta-refresh. A slow meta-refresh at that BTW. Some popular forum players use intermediary pages for various purposes. Also, I noticed that VBB and phpBB use no intermediary page or popup. They just load the page. Those are forums that can handle searching 200,000 posts without delays. They use a MySQL or SQL Server backend. WWF can use those or Access. Access really shouldn't be any slower. If it does get to slower, then the site admin really shouldn't be using Access for their backend anyway because they are probably exceeding the 10 concurrent connections limit and are being throttled by the Access limiter. I'm just imagining what happens to the 5-10% of web surfers that don't have flash installed when they use WWF. Will they be prompted to download the evil Flash just to see a forum popup? borg, I know you're frustrated with the gif animation issue, but is the search delay that much? Just wondering. If you say yes, then give me a timing or two and I'll be happy to let it rest. |
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 9:46am
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Searches with 200,000 posts in tests take less than 1 second to perform, but this is with SQL Server running under localhost with no other load on the server. In the real world this can take longer if the server is; located away from the web server and there is heavy network load; the network is generally slow; the database or web server server is under heavy load; etc. All these issues can not be controlled by the forum engine, which is very fast. The progress bar, that most people like, in these uncontrolled circumstances is very useful. Take an issue that was reported to me only yesterday with a site hosted by readyhosting.com. Readhosting have recently upgraded their SQL server, but network speed between web server and SQL Server is awful, meaning that the search now takes 20 seconds to run instead of it's previous 1 second or less. In these circumstances the progress bar is very useful, for those on faster servers, the progress bar will not course any performance issues and will only briefly display in the users browser if at all. The intermediate page to let the user know they are logged in is just a nice way of informing the user that they have successfully logged in, or not if a cookie or session error has occurred. The previous file does all the work, but until the response is sent to the client browser there is no way to tell if the client browser is having issues with cookies or sessions, so the page is used as a round robin response to test this. This is probably better than just hoping, like in other forums, that the client browser has handled cookies and session correctly for login, only for the user to be puzzled why they are not logged in if an issue occurs. |
Posted By: djlurchg
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 5:56pm
You're questioning VBBs and phpBBs implementation? They are the standard by which all others are measured.
So now you're responsible for your users running the software on a terrible host? What you are talking about is a hosting issue, not a software issue. If people want to host with a company that provides such terrible service, that's their perogative. Let me ask again, what about the 5%-10% of users that don't have flash installed? |
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 6:25pm
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Flash is used because it was the only option as IE will not animate GIF's after the submit button is clicked, as I have already explained. I'm sorry to the 5% of people may not have Flash installed, but I believe the 2 hours of writing 3 pages of replies explaining all the reasoning covers pretty much everything. We now know why it has been done how it is, we know allot of people quite like the feature, and we know you don't like it. Do we really need to keep going over it? |
Posted By: djlurchg
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 6:37pm
| Nope. |
Posted By: wistex
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 7:56pm
That's why you have access to the source code, mate. Modify at will.  There are some things in the 7.x version that I did not like the way Borg implemented it, so for the ones that mattered to me enough to do something about it, I changed it. I have yet to find a forum package (or any software or script for that matter) that does everything like I want it to. WWF is the best ASP forums around and secure to boot. It makes an excellent base upon which to build your website. Especially since its commented so well. ------------- http://www.wistex.com" rel="nofollow - WisTex Solutions http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/forums" rel="nofollow - CaribbeanChoice Forums |
Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 13 April 2006 at 9:17pm
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Lock this topic, as this has been fully discussed now.
------------- Handyman man? |