Does deleting msgs cause the forum to get slow?
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URL: https://forums.webwiz.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=25234
Printed Date: 03 April 2026 at 8:25pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Does deleting msgs cause the forum to get slow?
Posted By: chong67
Subject: Does deleting msgs cause the forum to get slow?
Date Posted: 29 January 2008 at 9:18pm
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I am just wondering:
If you delete msgs here and there, will the forum get slower?
I get my idea because its like a disk. As you delete files here and there, the hard drive starts to get frag. So you need to do a defrag on your hard drive. But I dont know how to defrag a database. Does deleting msgs make it worst?
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Replies:
Posted By: MadDog
Date Posted: 16 February 2008 at 1:02am
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Since no one answered this topic..... Deleting topics will not slow it down. It will shrink your database and most likely make it slightly faster; even more so with Access since an Access DB sucks for a production website. If your using MySQL or MSSQL you really dont need to delete topics because WWF was built to handle hundreds of thousands of topics. ------------- http://www.iportalx.net" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 16 February 2008 at 9:12am
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Just to add to what MadDog said. Access databases do not auto shrink when you delete data from an Access database it doesn't actually free up diskpsace. Instead what you have to do with Access is compact and repair the database. This is were the Access database is rebuilt thus freeing up diskspace and speeding up the database. ------------- https://www.webwiz.net/web-wiz-forums/forum-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - Web Wiz Forums Hosting https://www.webwiz.net/web-hosting/windows-web-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - ASP.NET Web Hosting |
Posted By: electricscooter
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 1:31am
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Also on access, it will bloat just from adding records, if you use the dsnless connection, I tested this on a website that got GPS tracking every 10 seconds for 2 vehicles, the records coming in cause a geometrically inceasing bloat using a particular (and most popular) db engine setup for webservers, I tried a different approach and it solved the problem and the bloat on add stopped, now if I can only remember what the solution was.... :)
I will go back and look and post, not all web providers support it, but for the ones that do, the other connection I chose worked hands down 100 times better for speed and stopping bloat on add.
If your access dn is deleting records, you must compact it to regain the space and make the file smaller, and when you compact it, things may slow down until it gets used as any queries that are stored and executed in the db have to rebuild their btree on first use.
That wont effect 99.9% of you because you put your SQL in your ASP, and you shouldn't, you can do stored procedures in access (a query built and saved in the db) and call it from asp, makes your sql in access run 100 times faster once you learn how to do it.
As for access sucking, heard that for years, been running production sites with 200 plus users that go in via access gui simulataneously with no problems, just have to know how to set it up and configure it properly.
As for a backend for a webserver, it also works great and is a cheap alternative for most.
I have used it since 98 in a LOT of development systems that went production and have had zero problems that we couldn't research and solve.
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Posted By: billd3
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:16am
EXCEPT that many hosts allow so much size for the SQL database, and if you exceed that, you either pay for another DB/more space or shrink it. Not sure about the database itself in our case, but the backup file is over 28meg. I see we're limited to 150 meg. That 28 came in 8 months. So in 2 to 3 years, we could outgrow the allowed SQL database............ then what? (one host said it didn't matter- SQL database no matter the size, but some say "xxx meg SQL database(s) ------------- BillD http://theamcpages.com http://theamcforum.com |
MadDog wrote:Posted By: electricscooter
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 6:50am
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I have run access up to the 1 gig file limit and it worked fine.
I have one that was in Oracle and was used for billing, it was a gig, we redesigned and ported it to Access, it shrank to 1/4 gig due to the efficincy of the new database schema and we have used it at 1/4 gig every month to do the billing since 2000 no problem.
Those that think it can't handle big size file jobs just don't understand the application.
What we saved in Oracle costs was a person and a half's salary each year, over 150k
Before MS started pushing SQL server, they made a lot of claims about access, and they were true, once they started pushing sql server, ms started denouncing access, because you can't license it on a per user per cpu basis and make billions, like you can with sql server and oracle.
If you have a multi-user intensive site or handle online transactions, then you need something more robust, but for a forum ?
Please .....
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Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 2:39pm
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The size of the Access database is not important the issue, as see
forums with 1Mb Access databases fallover, and then see others with
over 500Mb databases plod along fine. For your billing system Access maybe fine, but when used as the backend for a forum it's just not up to the task. Forums, especially busy forums, place allot of strain on the database with many reads and writes to the database. The problem with Access is it is not designed for the intensity that a web application can place on it, and support tickets from users who's Access database has fallen over is very common. Yet never yet heard of a mySQL or SQL Server database becoming corrupted. There are also lost of other issues with the use of Access databases, one of the main ones is that it doesn't allow remote connections and also courses allot of disk I/O. In the web hosting environment this is not good as it courses the web server, which usually mainly reads from the disk to have high I/O everytime an Access database is used on a web server, thus slowing down the whole server, which is not good. When fault finding on production web servers with monitoring tools I often see the negative effects Access has on web servers, which is why we try and discourage the use of Access altogether by giving our hosting clients free SQL Server databases with their hosting packages. You also have security aspects in using Access databases, as many people do not sufficient secure the database file, which often leads to hackers downloading and getting their hands on sensitive information. Other issues to consider with Access is the slower performance, paging, etc. it is very resource intensive. The reason why MS pushed Access was they didn't have another database at the time that didn't cost lots of money to use with their IIS web server. Now they have a free edition of SQL Server things have changed. Microsoft are now pushing their 64bit OS's and Windows Server 2008 is the last 32bit server OS they will do. The problem with this is that MS are not making a 64bit OBDC driver for Access, so it looks like in future you may not be able to use Access anyway for web sites. ------------- https://www.webwiz.net/web-wiz-forums/forum-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - Web Wiz Forums Hosting https://www.webwiz.net/web-hosting/windows-web-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - ASP.NET Web Hosting |
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 2:49pm
We pickup web sites from these web hosts that offer so called 'unlimited resources' all the time. They are usually the worse offenders as they advertise unlimited resources but then kick off users or throttle them at very low resource usage claiming that they are using to many resources on the server and are in breach of the Acceptable Use Policy AUP. If a web host ever offers unlimited resources, then these are the hosts to avoid. If you know what their real internal resource limits were you wouldn't go near them. Diskspace on properly setup SQL Servers with decent RAID SCSI harddrives costs around $30 per gig (and thats just the diskpsace), and if your hosts makes backups then this would be even higher. Many hosts do allow you to purchase extra diskspace at very reasonable prices if you need further space, you should contact your host to findout. ------------- https://www.webwiz.net/web-wiz-forums/forum-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - Web Wiz Forums Hosting https://www.webwiz.net/web-hosting/windows-web-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - ASP.NET Web Hosting |
Posted By: billd3
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 2:57pm
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LOL, we'll be all moved over to you in a couple weeks, Bruce. Limits or not......... that so-called unlimited SQL is great, but constant connection issues and resets of the memory pool are not fine. I'll put up with paying a bit for the space if that means the host can use that money to keep things better. Besides, with the customer service you folks offer here, not much scares me now. If we have an issue, we simply start a "ticket" and get it dealt with. The other host simply said "sorry, that's your problem". I run SQL2005 on my home system and IIS and have a duplicate of the forum running to play with settings and appearances, and it's SO nice to have that SQL management right there. I've deleted a lot of old messages from our current forum based on SQL, on the current/old host, they are no longer relevant, and it did nothing to slow or speed anything. zero impact, other than one of the mods who posts a LOT in that area asked what was up with his post count going down by 50. He said, honest, he's laid off the beer so it wasn't that.... I explained - house-keeping ahead of our move. I move I simply can't wait to happen now! QUESTION - if the SQL database BACKUP file is 28 meg, what is the actual SQL server database size or space taken on the server?? Just curious. ------------- BillD http://theamcpages.com http://theamcforum.com |
Posted By: WebWiz-Bruce
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 4:37pm
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The size of the database can differer from that of the backup. However with only a 28Mb database removing content will have no effect on performance. We have forums running on our network with around 400,000 posts and load the same speed as forums with only 100 posts. Extra SQL Server space with us costs £4.99 per quarter for an extra 100Mb, so it's massively expensive so I wouldn't worry to much about the number of posts in your forum. ------------- https://www.webwiz.net/web-wiz-forums/forum-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - Web Wiz Forums Hosting https://www.webwiz.net/web-hosting/windows-web-hosting.htm" rel="nofollow - ASP.NET Web Hosting |