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Hello and Please Help

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Forum Name: Web Design Discussion
Forum Description: Discussion on web design and development subjects.
URL: https://forums.webwiz.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=9530
Printed Date: 28 March 2026 at 9:26am
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Topic: Hello and Please Help
Posted By: sarab
Subject: Hello and Please Help
Date Posted: 04 February 2004 at 7:12am
Hi everyone -

I'm brand new to these forums and hoping that I'm putting this post in the right one...

Myself and my friend Jennifer are both new to web design and eager to learn from those who've gone before.

I'm still working on my first site (with a WYSIWYG editor - I know... boo, hiss) but Jen has got hers up and running.  (Well, she takes more time off work than I do).

The thing is, it seems to work OK (in Windoze at least, and on different vintages of browser) but we (that is I) would like some 'informed' comment about layout, style etc.

When I suggested to Jen that she should use a forum like this for feedback, she went white (and she's pretty pale anyway, what with it being Winter here in the south of the UK).

So, I'm asking on her behalf, on the basis that any comments made can be softened (if necessary) by me before handing them on.    And - on a selfish level - I'll learn too, and might then be able to avoid the same mistakes, traps and so on, when I get around to launching my first site.

We're neither of us terribly technical, so the plainer you can make your answers, the more effective they'll be - but, hey, we live in hope that we'll improve!

It's great that forums like these exist, where people with a shared enthusiasm (if not shared ability, but I'm optimistic) can swap ideas, learn, ask and generally stir the broth of Web creativity.

So, having worn my index fingers down to stumps with all this typing, could I ask whether some of you kind folks would take a look at the site and offer some hints, tips and general advice?

It's http://www.algarve-beach-life.com - here -

and thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you can offer.


(And if this is the wrong forum, please suggest the right one and I'll repost - all part of my learning process). 
Confused

SaraB




Replies:
Posted By: dj air
Date Posted: 05 February 2004 at 6:43pm

hi sara b

well you'll soon be as good as us if you are enthosiastic .. ive been doing web design/developing for about 8 years now

down south .. same here ...

anyway your in the right forum,

its not a bad layout but im not sure about the menu .... its a bit hard to read the links/wording ... but the colours are ok..... maybe if the font was straight it would be better..

sorry to be ruthless but you did want our views (i hate criticising others work).

not sure if you know but you have erros on the page .... (javascript)

but overall a good start i still remember my first page ......aaagghhhh those where the days

anyway i must run ..



Posted By: pmormr
Date Posted: 06 February 2004 at 8:53am
if you want to serious... buy Microsoft Frontpage or Macromedia Dreamweaver (they cost about 500 dollars, but in my opinion, it's well worth it, that last statement applies for Dreamweaver, not frontpage, i hate frontpage)

-------------
Paul A Morgan

http://www.pmorganphoto.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.pmorganphoto.com/


Posted By: KCWebMonkey
Date Posted: 06 February 2004 at 12:58pm

looks a lot better than my first site way back when...

just keep practicing and trying new things out...it's the only way to learn.



Posted By: pmormr
Date Posted: 06 February 2004 at 6:28pm
u should have seen my first website

-------------
Paul A Morgan

http://www.pmorganphoto.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.pmorganphoto.com/


Posted By: dpyers
Date Posted: 06 February 2004 at 10:04pm

Originally posted by pmormr pmormr wrote:

u should have seen my first website

Actually, the sins of our youth have a way of coming back to haunt us - http://www.archive.org/ - http://www.archive.org/



-------------

Lead me not into temptation... I know the short cut, follow me.


Posted By: pmormr
Date Posted: 06 February 2004 at 10:27pm
i haven't even left my youth yet... (seeing how i was 9 years old when i made my first one, it's actually pretty good)

-------------
Paul A Morgan

http://www.pmorganphoto.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.pmorganphoto.com/


Posted By: neotrix
Date Posted: 08 February 2004 at 12:35am
I feel like you made all the images in flash

-------------
http://www.muhammadbinyusrat.com/blog/" rel="nofollow - Say to the believing men..


Posted By: sarab
Date Posted: 09 February 2004 at 5:28am
Thanks for the comments so far, everyone.   

I know, 'cause we talked it over lots of times, that Jennifer wanted a fairly 'simple' site, since it was about a non-tech subject (holiday beaches).   So she wanted a beach 'feel' to it, hence the page background.

A fair number of people who've looked at it have criticized the buttons text as none too readable (though I find it OK and my eyesight's not the best).

Another problem was the page 'headline' text, since she wanted to use Eraserdust font as it looks like letters drawn in the sand.   Problem is, it shows up on my monitor as just sans serif font, as I don't have Eraserdust.   Any suggestions for how she might overcome that one?   (Actually, that's a bit of a selfish question, since I'm facing a similar problem with my own site, which I'm sweating to get launched).

Could I ask Neotrix what his comment meant: <I feel like you made all the images in flash>.    I don't know what flash means, and I'm fairly certain if it's a program Jen doesn't have it yet.   I guess from the smiley that you think that would be bad?   Could you explain why, and also why you came to your conclusion?   Thanks.

This is a great forum, and I'm sure I'll be able to learn bundles of useful stuff from all of you.   I just wish I'd discovered it before I started work on my site.

I've a feeling that I could have saved myself a lot of wasted work .

Thanx again

Sara


Posted By: BoLt
Date Posted: 09 February 2004 at 7:03am

Don’t worry as your site look ok to me. The only things you may wish to consider that is if you can run ASP scripts, is a guest book and a News Mailing List. By doing this you will give interaction for your visitors. It’s a bit hard to find contact info, You may wish to think about a contact me page.

Looks good

Navigation good

Information good

Imaging good

Interaction Needs more visitor inputs

Keep up the good work



-------------
BoLt (Computer Engineer)
I suffer from Dyslexia, it means I can not spell to well not that I am thick.

www.welshlens.co.uk


Posted By: pmormr
Date Posted: 09 February 2004 at 7:37pm

Originally posted by BoLt BoLt wrote:

I suffer from Dyslexia, it means I can not spell to well not that I am thick.
If that's a joke then you should fix it up a little...

"I syffer fromm Dislekseeia, dat meens I can know spel 2 wel, not dat I m thyck"



-------------
Paul A Morgan

http://www.pmorganphoto.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.pmorganphoto.com/


Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 10 February 2004 at 10:00am
Originally posted by pmormr pmormr wrote:

Originally posted by BoLt BoLt wrote:

I suffer from Dyslexia, it means I can not spell to well not that I am thick.
If that's a joke then you should fix it up a little...

"I syffer fromm Dislekseeia, dat meens I can know spel 2 wel, not dat I m thyck"

HHAHAHAHA~!

pmormr... I nearly peed laughing...

I have some dyslexic friends. One is very thick and knows it. He's a newf and one of the funniest people you'd ever meet. The other fellow worked real hard to overcome is dyslexia, did so, and has become a very successful drug dealer since.

 



-------------
http://renegademinds.com/" rel="nofollow - Renegade Minds - Guitar Software http://renegademinds.com/Default.aspx?tabid=65" rel="nofollow - Slow Down Music


Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 10 February 2004 at 10:41am

For the site, it looks like you have a good deal of content, which is the absolute #1 most important thing.

I'm not a fan of navigation buttons, in fact I hate them. I prefer text navigation. But get rid of the "button" text in the tags. You don't need it. "Eating Out" is enough. "Eating Out Button" is too much.

The nav button font is a bit hard to read. It works in the title, but the nav seems difficult. e.g. The second last button, "Algarre Fires 2003" is quite hard to read (relatively of course). I did not misspell there... The 'r' and 'v' are too similar when the font size is that small with that font. (Fonts are an art in themselves, and I suck so I stick to Arial, Courier, Times, etc...)

The color scheme is fine, but the contrast is a bit much. Try to blend the top and nav section with the body. It should be a bit more organic and not so stark.

Having Google ads is a great idea, but try a different color scheme. Can you match it a bit better? Also, the positioning for the ads is chaotic. They should be set in a specific position with no change.

You have email links that expose your email address to spiders... get ready for spam... Put that in a page where people enter all their information and click submit. You will get less spam.

Copy... be careful what you say. Things like "Please subscribe..." sound like begging. Don't. Tell people to subscribe and why they should. e.g. Subscribe to Algarve Beach Life and get all the latest and best information on blah blah blah. Invite people like you are doing THEM a favor, because you are.

Titles are poorly managed. You have code like:

<h3>
<b><font face="Verdana"><font color="#3333FF"><font size=-1>Desserts</font></font></font>&l t;/b></h3>

That's very messy. But good that you are using H# tags - VERY good to do that. The lower the number, the better. However, make them bigger. They are too small. You want them to stand out. I'm a web surfer, and I have little time, and I'm stupid. Make it real simple for me... Don't treat people like they care... they don't. You have to make them care, and a BIG DESSERT is much better than a little dessert.

CSS might help there.

 



-------------
http://renegademinds.com/" rel="nofollow - Renegade Minds - Guitar Software http://renegademinds.com/Default.aspx?tabid=65" rel="nofollow - Slow Down Music


Posted By: BoLt
Date Posted: 10 February 2004 at 5:04pm

Originally posted by pmormr pmormr wrote:

If that's a joke then you should fix it up a little...

"I syffer fromm Dislekseeia, dat meens I can know spel 2 wel, not dat I m thyck"

 

Dyslexia is no joke, and yes I do suffer form dyslexia and work hard to get round it. I never ask for sympathy and I never give sympathy in similar conditions, including disabled disabilities, I just give respect out instead. Dyslexia is hard on it’s own to overcome without being provoked with disrespectful comments.

I have a full respect for BoRg, Maddog and others like them as they work hard to achieve there end results. Just think how hard it must be for someone that looks at words only to see the shapes of the letters change and try to achieve a small part of what BoRg and Maddog can do. I have achieved many things in my life so far including. working with electronics, advanced robotics, meteorological, geological and computer engineering all with my dyslexia.

No I never joke about Dyslexia...... I just give it my best.



-------------
BoLt (Computer Engineer)
I suffer from Dyslexia, it means I can not spell to well not that I am thick.

www.welshlens.co.uk


Posted By: sarab
Date Posted: 11 February 2004 at 7:40am
Thanks again, all (and especially Bluefrog this time).

Some of the stuff you've written has made me rethink what I'm doing on my own site, and I know Jennifer's planning some reworks, now she's gotten over me submitting her site to critiques!

One question bluefrog  --  the email addresses were put in to be specific to the page contents.   I argued with Jennifer that she should have a Contact page, but she was adamant about doing it this way.   What I don't understand is why this approach would be more prone to spam than email links on a Contact page?   Am I missing something?  And is there a technical way to get around this hassle of spam?

The titles code is what the WYSIWYG editor that Jen uses puts in.   We don't know how to avoid that.   Are there programs that would strip such messy stuff out?   We'd love to be slick enough to use a 'proper' page editor, but that's for the future, unfortunately.

Oh, and the bit about the alt text for images...   We thought that if someone had images disabled then 'xxx button' would make more sense than just 'xxx'.   Are we way off beam there?   If so, that's something else I'll have to fix on my own site also.

Thanks again, all, for the great feedback.   We can't believe all the help we're getting.   It's like Christmas in February!

And sorry about the 'just one question' bluefrog.  Once I get started, I do go on a bit! 

Sara

PS   Pity about all the off-topic stuff about dyslexia.   I certainly never thought it was put up there as a joke, and am sad that anybody would think it was.   Ah, well...


Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 11 February 2004 at 10:38am
Originally posted by BoLt BoLt wrote:

Originally posted by pmormr pmormr wrote:

If that's a joke then you should fix it up a little...

"I syffer fromm Dislekseeia, dat meens I can know spel 2 wel, not dat I m thyck"

 

Dyslexia is no joke, and yes I do suffer form dyslexia and work hard to get round it. I never ask for sympathy and I never give sympathy in similar conditions, including disabled disabilities, I just give respect out instead. Dyslexia is hard on it’s own to overcome without being provoked with disrespectful comments.

I have a full respect for BoRg, Maddog and others like them as they work hard to achieve there end results. Just think how hard it must be for someone that looks at words only to see the shapes of the letters change and try to achieve a small part of what BoRg and Maddog can do. I have achieved many things in my life so far including. working with electronics, advanced robotics, meteorological, geological and computer engineering all with my dyslexia.

No I never joke about Dyslexia...... I just give it my best.

No disrespect intended. I'm ADHD. I just don't take too much too seriously.

The fellow I mentioned that's a drug dealer... He really exists. He is dyslexic, very intelligent, and has worked very hard to overcome. For that I have a lot of respect for him... For selling drugs... well... that's another issue we won't touch here.

When I look at my two friends who are dyslexic, the "thick" one never tried much, and there is nothing to be said other than his thickest attribute is his unwillingness to try harder. The other fellow deserves a clap for his efforts.

Cheers to you Bolt for successfully dealing with a difficult predicament.

P.S. My viewable MSN ID name for the past month or so was, "Dislexic Christmas: What did Satan bring you?"

 



-------------
http://renegademinds.com/" rel="nofollow - Renegade Minds - Guitar Software http://renegademinds.com/Default.aspx?tabid=65" rel="nofollow - Slow Down Music


Posted By: Bluefrog
Date Posted: 11 February 2004 at 10:53am

Originally posted by sarab sarab wrote:

Thanks again, all (and especially Bluefrog this time).

Some of the stuff you've written has made me rethink what I'm doing on my own site, and I know Jennifer's planning some reworks, now she's gotten over me submitting her site to critiques!

One question bluefrog  --  the email addresses were put in to be specific to the page contents.   I argued with Jennifer that she should have a Contact page, but she was adamant about doing it this way.   What I don't understand is why this approach would be more prone to spam than email links on a Contact page?   Am I missing something?  And is there a technical way to get around this hassle of spam?

The titles code is what the WYSIWYG editor that Jen uses puts in.   We don't know how to avoid that.   Are there programs that would strip such messy stuff out?   We'd love to be slick enough to use a 'proper' page editor, but that's for the future, unfortunately.

Oh, and the bit about the alt text for images...   We thought that if someone had images disabled then 'xxx button' would make more sense than just 'xxx'.   Are we way off beam there?   If so, that's something else I'll have to fix on my own site also.

Thanks again, all, for the great feedback.   We can't believe all the help we're getting.   It's like Christmas in February!

And sorry about the 'just one question' bluefrog.  Once I get started, I do go on a bit! 

Sara

PS   Pity about all the off-topic stuff about dyslexia.   I certainly never thought it was put up there as a joke, and am sad that anybody would think it was.   Ah, well...

Email Addresses:

Never actually post one online. Use a form and an email component to send the mail. There are LOTS of posts here about email components. Some are free (Jmail) and some are not. My favorite is Persits because it works really well and is highly functional far beyond what most people need, but I do.

There are programs that "spider" the internet looking for email addresses to send spam to. If you post your email address, get ready. Some nitwit posted my support email address and now I get a ton of Korean porn spam. I'm aching to DDOS the site it is for...

I've posted other technical links in the forums here on how to avoid spam. Search for "spam" in the forums on my user name and you'll eventually find it.

For the WYSIWYG thing, don't worry about it. You don't want to have to get too messy doing hand coding. Hand coding is much better if you can do it, but it is not necessary.

Regarding ALT properties, people who use LYNX or other text only / image diabled broswers will understand what it is. You don't need to tell them it is a button because they don't really care. They only want to know the link itself.

And Merry Christmas

There are a lot of very knowledgable people in this forum who are willing to help out. Take advantage of it and join the party  ~!

 



-------------
http://renegademinds.com/" rel="nofollow - Renegade Minds - Guitar Software http://renegademinds.com/Default.aspx?tabid=65" rel="nofollow - Slow Down Music


Posted By: sarab
Date Posted: 12 February 2004 at 9:23am
Thanks again, bluefrog, for taking the time to help.   I'm not sure I understand everything you've written, but I'll read it all again (slowly) and see where that gets me.

BTW (re your sig) if I really were to tell you something about the stuff I don't know, this could become a very looong thread!  

Gratefully,

Sara


Posted By: sarab
Date Posted: 16 February 2004 at 9:40am
Looking back over this thread, I noticed that I never did get an explanation of the comments about things looking like they were done in 'flash'.

Anybody?

Weekend update:

Jen launched another couple of pages on the site, as she wanted to get the first edition of her site's e-zine published (and it mentioned the new pages specifically).

So, the pages went up 'as is' using the current template...

But we did spend ages looking over all the comments received, and tried out some new templates which tried to incorporate most of them.   We didn't get to a final decision, but will do soon.   I'm still hoping to use what we've learned to change things in my own site's design.

But once we change Jen's site, I'll ask for more feedback.

Thanks again, everyone. 

Sara



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