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Love the forums, angry about Google Ads

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elongman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elongman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Love the forums, angry about Google Ads
    Posted: 30 October 2005 at 4:58pm
I support a handful of clients who have been using the WebWiz forums for years.  One in particular runs a very popular board that has over 30,000 posts and 1200 (very active) members. 

We upgraded her board to V7.95 last night and we were surprised to see that the board was now showing Google Ads at the top and bottom of the page, undoubtedly benefiting only Mr. Corkhill.  This new "feature" was not publicized anywhere that I can find...it's certainly not listed in the Revision Log (beyond a vague reference to "new ads file") or in the list of new features in the new version.  

More appropriate might be a large red sign: WARNING! WEB WIZ FORUMS NOW REQUIRES MORE THAN JUST LEAVING OUR LINK INTACT!  YOU MUST DISPLAY ADS FOR US ON YOUR SITE IN ORDER TO USE OUR SOFTWARE WITHOUT PAYING A LICENSING FEE!

It's one thing to give the software away as linkware and require that we leave a link to WWG at the bottom of the page.  I don't mind doing that, in fact I'm happy to offer up the Google juice because it's a well written piece of software. 

But dropping in Google Ads to earn advertising revenue from other people's websites is going too far, particularly when the only way to (legally) get rid of it is to pay an "ad/link removal fee".  This is too drastic a change in the licensing model to be "slipstreamed" in. 

Effectively, this amounts to hijacking revenue generating space on a website that's not under your control, and to do it with no advance notice was a bad, bad idea.

If you made it optional ("Enable Google Ads if you'd like to have your site benefit the developer of the forums") that would be a different matter, but this is just wrong.  If you had properly communicated in the documentation what the change was, that would have been more acceptable.  I don't appreciate being surprised by it, nor do I appreciate you changing the rules of engagement without any real notification.

My $0.02, for whatever it's worth.

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WebWiz-Bruce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WebWiz-Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2005 at 9:07am
As the site is now taking up well over 40 hours a week of my time I need to make enough money from it to cover my time and earn enough money for myself and my family.

At the moment I am over 30,000 USD in debit, living in a council flat (apartment) on a dodgy council estate with my partner and 6 your old kid. I don't even have a phone or Internet at home, but luckily my friend owns an audio manufacturing company which has office space above one of his warehouses which he lets me have for free in return for doing some web site work for him each month.

This means that as this is a full-time job I need it to pay enough money to live.

The present Google ads in Web Wiz Forums are a trial to see if advertising would work, with maybe an aim to have ads servered from Web Wiz Guide and people paying us direct to advertise. But at the moment with a 0.01% click rate it's not even enough to buy a Big Mac meal each day, so this idea will probably be dropped.

The other option at present is to charge money for the software, but I don't really want to do this, so other means of revenue need to be looked at.
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elongman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elongman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2005 at 10:52am
I appreciate your situation, and the openness with which you've shared it. 

What frosted me about the Google Ads is not so much the fact that they were in there -- I respect your desire to be compensated for your hard work -- it's that it came as a surprise.  Admittedly, I'm not a frequent visitor on the support forums at WWG (testament to the basic stability of the software), so perhaps I missed some long discussion about this, but I doubt it.

There are A LOT of sites running this software (Google shows 4.3 million hits on the phrase "Powered by Web Wiz Forums" -- don't know how many actual sites that corresponds to, but it's more than a couple) -- use the community to your advantage. 

I'll bet there are a lot of capable developers who would assist with development work (if you're at all interested in sharing the load), and I suspect that at least some of your users would be willing to pay a "support" fee annually or something like that to get advanced features or more access to suggest changes, or something.

If you ask, I suspect that the community of users will help find a way to create revenue around this thing so that it won't go away.  In the light of day, more creative solutions may come up than you would ever have imagined.  Hey, if vBulletin can support an entire business around their product at $160 (or $85/year), why not Web Wiz Forums?

Again, thanks for your candid response.


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WebWiz-Bruce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WebWiz-Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2005 at 10:55am
In light of your response I will update the new features page to mention the Google ads as a new feature.
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elongman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elongman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2005 at 12:39pm
Thanks, Bruce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfrancis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2005 at 4:59am
I'm not sure I understand, is the ad words block being inserted into other forums? Is this intended to remain on registered versions?
 
(I have not upgraded from 7.92 yet and am curious.)
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WebWiz-Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2005 at 7:41am
The free linkware version now also has Google Ads intergrated into it. These are removed by purchasing the link removal key, which has been renamed to Ad/Link Removal Key.

At the moment it is only a test to see if it's viable, but I am thinking about changing it so that the free version has ads in it at the bottom and/or top, with the ads comming from this site. Then if companies want to advertise within the software they can purchase advertising directly from Web Wiz Guide,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JCH2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2005 at 9:19am
I have to be honest - I detest adware of any kind.  It's bad enough that the average half hour of news on TV amounts to 20-21 minutes of actual news.  I don't buy any software that uses streamed ads in its shareware or demonstration versions.  I advise all clients to follow the same policy. 
 
I do however appreciate that I was able to FULLY test the forum software before I purchased it shortly after, and this was a selling point for my following purchase. 
 
I recommend ads be positioned so they do not interrupt styling of a forum, or at least minimize their impact. And be aware that the adware approach might actually decrease sales. It would have made me think twice.
 
Minimizing ads table height might be a start (even the one at the top of your forum, for it has excess blank space inside of it and around it.)  Or prehaps placing it at the bottom of the page.
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