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michael View Drop Down
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Points: 4670 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:43pm
Well I think some developers just want to protect their code. It might be a good idea to only realease a dll as long as it is in beta and e.g. only allow to run on localhost so all this impatient ones cannot run it on a production server.
If you look at some of the other large .net Projects like CommunityServer.org, they release full source code as well, thus sometimes it is still hard to learn from as those projects tend to get overly complex and hard to follow.
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WebWiz-Bruce View Drop Down
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Points: 9844 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WebWiz-Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:59pm
Thanks michael, I'll have to have a look at that
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Points: 877 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wistex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by -boRg- -boRg- wrote:

The problem is that classic ASP is no-longer being developed.
True.  At some point I may consider ASP.NET for a new website, but I am not going to convert an existing thousand plus page website to ASP.NET just because its the latest greatest thing.  If my website works fine in ASP and does what I need, there is no reason to switch to ASP.NET.
 
So, as a paying customer, basically I will always upgrade to the latest ASP version of WWF.  But if development of the ASP version stops, then I'll just have to take over the maintenance of WWF on my website rather than convert to ASP.NET.
 
My website wouldn't benefit from any of the new features of ASP.NET anyway.  So why go through all the trouble of rewriting everything?

Originally posted by -boRg- -boRg- wrote:

Although at the moment it looks like the downloads for ASP forums still out weighs the downloads for ASP.NET forums more and more people are moving across everyday.
Partially that is because of the large ASP userbase.  ASP Classic is not going away anytime soon.  Hell, people are still using Perl when there are more modern languages like ASP/VBScript, ASP/JScript, PHP and ASP.NET.
 
Even if Microsoft stops supporting it, there is always Chilisoft which allows you to run ASP in Linux.  It may become less popular over time, like Perl, but it will never go away.

Originally posted by -boRg- -boRg- wrote:

I've been looking at ASP.NET version 2 and it looks like there are quite a few improvements. Also allot of things like simpler to do in ASP.NET as they are built into the framework, rather than having to spend hours, if not months sometimes developing work arounds in ASP.
ASP.NET does seem to be the next generation of web design, so I am sure many new projects will get developed in it due to that simplicity.  I am even considering trying it out myself.  But, again, for new stuff only.  Converting old stuff that works is a waste of time.

Originally posted by -boRg- -boRg- wrote:

One things that puzzles me is why everyone who develops ASP.NET software always releases it as a .DLL file, even the free stuff.

This makes modifying the code and learning from other developers code impossible, which is something I would rather stay away from.
Agreed.  They probably do it so you have to pay them at some point to update they code.
 
I won't use any code on my website that I do not have the source code to.  Period.
 
I made that mistake once, and wound up rewriting all their poorly written ASP.NET DLLs into ASP Classic so I could fix them and enhance them.  I asked for ASP Classic, they gave me ASP.NET DLLs.  I was not happy.
 
 
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WebWiz-Bruce View Drop Down
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Points: 9844 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WebWiz-Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 5:22pm
I wouldn't recommend re-writing web sites just to have ASP.NET either, and I certainly won't be for most of my ASP web sites which are running fine as they are.

But as I want to re-design Web Wiz Guide anyway, it's going to need quite a big re-write, so I may as well re-write the whole thing using XHTML, CSS, and ASP.NET, so that it's ready for the next 5 years.

Also, I have been waiting to learn ASP.NET for a long time and ASP.NET 2 on paper looks really good, so I think it will be a good way to learn.

I've read loads of books on ASP.NET, but I always find the best way to learn anything is to just get on and do it.

I shall also be staying away from .DLL's as I have always been very proud of my code and don't want to hide it away, also it won't be as handy to update stuck in a .DLL.
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Susan0722 View Drop Down
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Points: 238 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan0722 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 6:00pm
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michael View Drop Down
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Points: 4670 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by -boRg- -boRg- wrote:

I shall also be staying away from .DLL's as I have always been very proud of my code and don't want to hide it away, also it won't be as handy to update stuck in a .DLL.


Well the DLL gets only created once you compile. You can still deliver a Project File with it's aspx file that have a .vb or .cs codebehind file... Once the user compiles the page it creates the dll for all code-behind stuff in the bin folder. If you really want to develop good asp.net sites you can't really stay away from dll's. I reckon you want to implement providers, class-libraries etc which will always be a dll.
How you deliver them is another story. I think in-line code "between server tags that is" makes a page harder to read. I like to have my code as Object Oriented as possible with as much code tugged away in classes etc.
    
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wistex View Drop Down
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Points: 877 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wistex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by michael michael wrote:

Originally posted by -boRg- -boRg- wrote:

I shall also be staying away from .DLL's as I have always been very proud of my code and don't want to hide it away, also it won't be as handy to update stuck in a .DLL.


If you really want to develop good asp.net sites you can't really stay away from dll's. I reckon you want to implement providers, class-libraries etc which will always be a dll.     
Another reason why I will probably switch to PHP rather than ASP.NET.  I want a script, not an application.  ASP.NET is more like building a Windows Application than a Web Page.  Yes, that has its benefits, like Windows applications being compiled has its benefits (mostly for the developer, the end-user loses control completely).
 
ASP.NET is good for professional developers who want to charge big money for web applications while retaining control over their code (similar to how Microsoft controls what Microsoft Word will and will not do, the end-user cannot customize anything Microsoft doesn't want them to). 
 
ASP and PHP are good for webmasters who want to retain control of what is on their website and be able to customize it.  I think most webmasters will switch to PHP if ASP goes away.  That is the only way they can stay in control of what's on their own websites without having to pay someone to change it. 
 
Only web developers will switch to ASP.NET, as it only benefits them and not the end-user.  Companies and individuals who have no interest in modfying the webpages will pay some web developer to make their web pages in ASP.NET, but the average webmaster who is not a programmer probably will use PHP instead.
 
Microsoft is actually sending a whole segment of the market to PHP by eliminating ASP.  ASP.NET is not a replacement for ASP because it is not a script, its a compiled application.  Totally different things.
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Mikey View Drop Down
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Points: 839 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by wistex wistex wrote:

ASP.NET is not a replacement for ASP because it is not a script, its a compiled application.


I was under the impression (proberly wrongly knowing me LOL) that asp.net code didn't neccesarily have to be compiled. Can anyone shed any light on this?
Handyman man?
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