Ive downloaded and installed the latest version of WWF and have not been able to resolve this problem.

When sending email out via CDOSYS, any email to hotmail.com or msn.com and intermittenly aol.com, do not arrive in the recipients email box. I am using my own hotmail account to try to debug this error (yes, ive checked all of the misc folders and turned off my filters). Emails to other addresses go through fine and dandy.

I have searched the forum and there is no topic related to this.

I have not altered the scripts, and from viewing the logs of my local smtp server the smtp server is sending them just fine. So what is it about those providers that arent letting the emails through?

Any suggestions?

I should note that this was found from people trying to register and not recieving their activation codes. The only file I have tried to debug is functions_send_mail.asp

I've had no trouble doing the same thing...Best I can imagine (and I'm sure someone else will have a better thought) is that you've been blacklisted by hotmail.

Have you tried using CDONTS to see if that sends out ok? 

My work server occasionally gets blacklisted for no good reason by some addresses.  Our bank for instance just will not let us send them email...big hassle.  I've never had any trouble with hotmail or aol though...through work or through the forum.

Very strange. Im running this on w2k3 server, so no cdonts and the server admins refuse to install it. Ive not had trouble in the past using cdonts, which is why i suspected it to be something to do with cdosys. I cant imagine that my tiny site has been blacklisted, but I shall check it out regardless.

Update : checked with 6 of the big spam blocklists and im not listed.

Well thats a very snide answer.

Does anyone else have any theories about how to accomplish sending an email via CDOSYS and formatting it correctly to pass through the filters such sites may have in place?

Borgs reply is actually a good test.

Do you have Term Serv access to the WWW Server?

Are you able (ie. have permissions) to  relay your clients (ie outlook / outlook express) mail via the SMTP Service on the WWW Server?

The reason being, if you can send a "normal" email via the WWW Server to a HOtmail account ... then you will know you aren't being denied access from "the server", and that maybe it is a "composition" thing.

I see.
I had the admin login and send a message to me through our smtp console to my hotmail account and it went through A OK.

Its definately either a configuration or composition issue. I am using the default CDOSYS code which ships with WWF, so Im trying to troubleshoot it from there. From what it sounds like, this is a known issue with the forums and sending email through CDOSYS, so it sure would be nice to find a resolution to this as it would probably help out quite a few!

As a side note ive emailed hotmail.com tech support and the microsoft bug reporting service. I doubt ill hear back from either but it was worth a shot.

Yahoo, MSN, and AOHell all publish webmaster info regarding what constitiutes spam to them. MSN also has one mail server that is totally hosed - e.g. handles mail in very non-standard ways. You'd have to check each site for details, and for other reasons they reject an email, but the quick list for spam flagging is:

1. From a blacklisted ip. or an ip within a range of blacklisted ip's.
2. Some number of sequential emails sent to their users with the same subject.
3. A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip.

dpyers wrote: Yahoo, MSN, and AOHell all publish webmaster info regarding what constitiutes spam to them. MSN also has one mail server that is totally hosed - e.g. handles mail in very non-standard ways. You'd have to check each site for details, and for other reasons they reject an email, but the quick list for spam flagging is: From a blacklisted ip. or an ip within a range of blacklisted ip's. Some number of sequential emails sent to their users with the same subject. A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip.

I dont think 1) is a problem since he can send an Email fro the server (or the admin ) and relay via the SMTP component.  We use various DNSBL lists on our own Email server and in most cases the sender gets a message back pointing out which specific spam block they are on.

2) Could be an issue, but since he is in development Id hazard he is only sending to himself.

3) Could almost certainly be it .... and a good test is to check the Email you receive yourself at another domain.  If you want, PM me and let me know where your site is.  I have 2 Mail Servers in use for myself and customers .... and will soon see if my servers turn your messge back as well ... for point 3.

DP, Thank you for that list.

#3 could very possibly be the cause. The IP of my server 69.56.242.54 on which my domain sits is also shared amongst several other domains, and in fact, upon a reverse DNS lookup, resolves to a completely different domain (and subdomain). Which is actually the domain of the owning hosting company.

So I would guess this was causing the issue at hand. Is anyone aware of any server configuration which could resolve this, or any 'hack' solution for sending to hotmail.com addresses? (ie, something like using the actual reverse dns result for the @ portion of the sender's email address)

EXCITED EDIT! We have a solution!

Line 117 of functions_send_mail.asp is where the edit takes place.

    If (InStr(strRecipientEmailAddress, "hotmail") Or InStr(strRecipientEmailAddress, "msn")) And strFromEmailAddress = "<email config address>" Then
     .From = strFromEmailName & " < mailto:noreply@69-56-242-54.theplanet.com - noreply@69-56-242-54.theplanet.com >"
    Else
     .From = strFromEmailName & " <" & strFromEmailAddress & ">"
    End If

This very ugly and not very configurable change to the code let the email slip right on into hotmail.com and was tested on an msn.com account i created as well. Hey Borg-e-baby, might this be something worth working into the config in a future version?

Great discussion guys! Thanks!

andrew_ wrote: DP, Thank you for that list. #3 could very possibly be the cause. The IP of my server 69.56.242.54 on which my domain sits is also shared amongst several other domains, and in fact, upon a reverse DNS lookup, resolves to a completely different domain (and subdomain). Which is actually the domain of the owning hosting company. So I would guess this was causing the issue at hand. Is anyone aware of any server configuration which could resolve this, or any 'hack' solution for sending to hotmail.com addresses? (ie, something like using the actual reverse dns result for the @ portion of the sender's email address)

Sorry ... but that "shouldn't be the issue".

The SMTP negotiation process involving SPAM chekcing and DNSBL lookups will check for

* Does the IP Address of your SMTP relay exist in a BANNED list.  THis will be the IP Address of the server and is not an issue for you. A reverse lookup on your IP Address wil give the domain of the host ... and this is normal.  You dont need to worry about this.

* Does the domain of the sender (in the FROM field) resolve.  For example if Im sending from mailto:user@123.domainabc.com - user@123.domainabc.com and the domain 123.domainabc.com doesn't exist then it will be denied access.  The from field is what you set in the WWF admin area.  This will occur regardless of what the IP Address of your relaying machine

thekiwi : did you quote the wrong person?

If you meant to quote me... Thats really beside the point. Whether or not that should be the issue, it makes total sense. My IP Address does not resolve to the same domain as the sender because im being virutally hosted. Changing the code as I showed fixed the issue and allowed me to send through to hotmail and msn OK.

DP was right on... A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip. Thats dead on, and was my case to the T.

It would be a great addition to the codebase if a reversedns lookup could be performed, or even directly inputted into the config and used in that fashion. It just works.

andrew_ wrote: thekiwi : did you quote the wrong person? If you meant to quote me... Thats really beside the point. Whether or not that should be the issue, it makes total sense. My IP Address does not resolve to the same domain as the sender because im being virutally hosted. Changing the code as I showed fixed the issue and allowed me to send through to hotmail and msn OK.

My guess is that you have inadvertantly corrected a problem somewhere else ... and more likely your default from address was/is incorrect.  THis can be a simple imput error, or a DNS misconfiguration in your domain details.  But if it works for you ... hey ... good stuff. 

To illustrate, my DEV environment is on an internal network (10.0.0.8) with a mails server (10.0.0.2) being used for relaying.  Its on a Dynamic IP Address and I can send to Hotmail, Yahoo etc etc accounts.  If you reverse lookup my SMTP relay IP Address you will get my ISP's FQDN.  If you reverse lookup on my FROM address and resolve its MX you will get my hosting server somewhere else in the world.  Remember, not all domains have/need an IP Address .. and a lot just have an MX record.

DP was right on... A reverse dns look-up does not resolve the senders domain with the ip. Thats dead on, and was my case to the T.

Good stuff ... but in computer fault finding your process does not imply cause and effect.

For example, I can send to my hotmail account using a faked Email address from my ISP's DSL connection ... the FROM address can be literally anything (in my tested cases) and all work fine.

It would be a great addition to the codebase if a reversedns lookup could be performed, or even directly inputted into the config and used in that fashion. It just works.

Good stuff ... but Im almost 99% sure you are bypassing an error in your forum config and/or your domains setup (eg at a DNS level).

Like I offered b4, if you send us the URL of your forum and/or the Email address you are using to send from ... we can test.

Don't have the links for aol/msn that referenced this problem, but this is the one from yahoo http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/spam/spam-17.html - http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/spam/spam-17.html . The other two had something similar about reverse dns.

One of my previous web hosts had a notice posted that because of this reverse dns problem, we should use their smtp server - mail.webhost.com rather than domain servers. Apparently they made some subsequent arrangement with the big three to bypass the check for mail coming from their range of ip's because we were later able to use our domain servers without a problem.

I currently run my own dns servers and alias all my smtp's to one common/master smtp server. No problems with either dedicated or shared ip's as long as I specify the domain smtp server instead of localhost.

There was some discussion in alt.www.webmaster a while ago about one of the msn mail servers being "bad" as mail sent to recipients on that particular server was subject to erratic bounces, but I forget the details.

If I were you andrew, I'd follow-up on thekiwi's offer. My gut (a laaarge one!), tells me there may be something interesting to learn here. A lot of the behaviors of the big 3's mail services seems inconsitent and I'd like to know the results of thekiwi's tests.

LOL I love comments like that (a laaarge one!).

Ill fire you a prvmsg probably some time this weekend thekiwi and see what we can figure out.

I love support threads like this which pull together so much good information!